Garf

[wrestle1952]

What people are failing to realize is there is more than one way to have a successful reef. GARF presents a way just as other writers or organizations have. Lee Chin Eng set up the first recorded reef and had a great deal of success. I personally have been in the hobby and first used wet-drys with shelves with sand and caulerpa in the tank. No water changes and kept many soft and LPS corals in thriving conditions. You can argue DSB's vs SSB's vs. NSB with all having great success rates. There is the Adie methods, Ly Seng and Miracle Mud, algae turf scrubbers et:al. Bottom line like plays in a football game or styles of play in a chess match there are no true ultimate methods in successful reefkeeping. GARF has had a great deal of success using their methods. I'm sure they have had failures too like the rest of us. I have seen so many "ultimate methods" since I started my first reef tank in 1986 I have begun to lose count. GARF is good for the hobby just as Julian Sprung, Albert Thiel, and the plethora of others claiming to be the ultimate experts. Instead of being critical of an organization we should give praise for what they are attempting to do........make everyone a successful reefer.

 

[A. Grandis]

GARF does more for the hobby then I do.

They may make some mistakes like every other.

Please don´t take a style or a "way to skin the cat" as a rule. We can set our reefs in many ways and use lots of info and have success with that.

Take your complaints direcly to GARF, if you do. That should be the way to do. If they don´t listen or they don´t care at least you did the right thing. Maybe they need to hear from you.

Happy reefkeeping people.

Grandis.

 

[czechmate32]

Great thread, all.
I'm just sparking up a 67 gallon gonna-be-a-reef tank, with a 33 gallong sump. I spent plenty of time on the GARF site, and, I hope, picked up some good info. I'm going to go with the Plenum, regardless if it might be somewhat archaic, as well as a refugium in the sump (loaded with, I'm guessing, chaeto...). I've already made my own rock using oyster shell, aragonite sand and cement- with luck, after a six week cure, it will make a nice, healthy home for... well, all sorts of sh*t.
My one question that has come up as a result of this thread is- how do you clean the plenum?
Thanks, folks.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15421320#post15421320 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by czechmate32
My one question that has come up as a result of this thread is- how do you clean the plenum?
Thanks, folks.

You don't

 

[kaptken]

Well Bill,,, You are technically correct.

We Never do clean the plenum. The Plenum is the sequestered dead water space below the egg crate and screen and 4 inches of properly sized and graded arragonite gravel. What does need some cleaning is the gravel above. To keep it from clogging up with detritus. The specified gravel size allows sufficient water space between grains for proper ionic difusion of the various compounds, both up and down, to and from the Plenum where they are digested by anoxic bacteria. You can read all about the concept from articles by Bob Goemans. He has experimented, researched and written much on the function and benefits of plenums. And GARF helps spread the word.

So using too fine a sand or gravel will inhibit the plenum from breathing properly and doing it's work. And too large a grain or too shallow a sand bed over the plenum will flood it with oxygen and spoil the desired anoxic bacteria zone. It's a little like Goldilocks and the porage of the three little bears. One is too hot, one is too cold, but one is just right to DEEE- NITRATE!.

Consider it like properly tuning the flows for a calcium reactor. and the consequences of too much or too little of any reactor flow. It's a tricky balancing act. Still,,, lots of reefers have sucessful calcium reactors.

Life, Is all about balance. And our Reef tanks balance on a particularly, narrow range of parameters. Plenums are not for everyone. You have to know and understand their particular needs to keep them working. But they are not very demanding. It's a passive system.

The best kind.

 

[kaptken]

PS: Theres no reason not to have a fuge or other means of filtration and DEEE-Nitrating along with your plenum too. It's not an all or nothing method. Plenums work very well with other filtration schemes. Depending on your bio load, the more schemes , the merrier.

Just keep it clean.

 

[czechmate32]

Okay- but the question is, how? Stugray said he "flushes" his every other water change, which I assume means every two weeks- how do you flush it?
Also, is CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade (grains 1mm-2mm) an appropriate size for my sand bed? I've got 80lbs. of that, as well as another 60 lbs. of Aragonite Sugar Sand (grains .1mm- 1mm).
Thanks again...

 

[stugray]

I flush my plenum about every other month ( I only do WCs about every 5 weeks and only ~15% )

I pump the water back into my system via the sump in the basement.

The sump is divided into 4 chambers:

1 - Dump IN from Display above ( right of pic )
2 - Refugium ( where the DSB & plenum is located ) front middle
3 - Bubble traps ( back )
4 - Return chamber which feeds the return pump (left)

The plenum in the Fuge area has a pipe that sticks up above the top of the sump.

Here's a pic:

As I am filling the sump with new SW, I just stick the hose up to the pipe for a couple of seconds until I see the sandbed "ooze" water, then I take the hose away from the pipe.

Stu

 

[czechmate32]

Unfortunately, with the GARF style in-my-main tank plenum, I don't have the opportunity to blow water back through, unless I keep the standpipe in it- which I definitely would prefer to avoid.
Dammit.

 

[GARFVolunteer]

IMO the plenum work best if you leave it alone and let it work. Vacuum the detritus out of the first inch or so with each water change. Have enough water flow to slightly disturb the sand and you are good to go.

Scott

 

[A. Grandis]

The plenum water needs to be low in oxygen. If you do water changes from it you can´t keep the oxigen right for its purposes. There is the need of minimal (almost no) disturbance to follow the original plan.

If you worry about detritus don´t have a plenum, or simply clean the whole system every 3 or 4 years. I wouldn´t worry too much about the detritus. Just don´t overload your system with fishes.

Grandis.

 

[JasonD]

Garf has done a lot for the hobby, I just don't like the look of a think sand bed in my display tank.

jason

 

[czechmate32]

Thanks, Scott-
Built my plenum today, my rock is curing (unfortunately, for another five weeks or so), and I'm raring to go...
I've got a 33 gallon sump for this 67 gallon tank, and I really am not sure what to do with it. It has two compartments, one of which I'll be using for a refugium- but, as I'm not added a skimmer for a bit, the other side will house my heaters and... well, I really don't know what else.
Any suggestions?

 

[stugray]

There was a thread ( I think in the advanced topics forum ) that went into extreme detail on plenum flushing.

The thread starter was a municipal waste treatment expert.

the discussion was about slow constant flushing vs. quick brief flushing.

However the benefit was that it refreshed areas of the sand bed that grew stagnant.

I cannot find it now, it must be so old the search function cant locate it.

Anyhow his argument was that brief flushing did not kill all the anaerobic bacteria in the sand bed.

There were some opponents that said constant flushing ( in the opposite direction from the old fashioned UGF ) was the best way to run a plenum.

I will say that I have never had a problem with water parameters since I set the system up this way.


I will continue looking for the thread.

Another case of: to each his own.

Stu

 

[billsreef]

Stu,

Check the Archives

 

[stugray]

Bill,

Thank you!

Here it is ( it is a long read ):

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673910


And the one that started it all:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289910

Stu

 

[Paul B]

I read most of this thread (only because it mentioned UGFs) and I really don't know what it is supposed to be about. I remember when they "Invented" GARF. I think it was short for geothermal something then they got into reefs.
I never heard anything bad about them.

I also remember when they "invented" Thiel, Sprung, Delbeek
and all of the others :lol:

I even know Goemans

Have a great day.
Paul

 

[stugray]

Paul,

Thanks for dropping by!

You still run a UGF dont you?

Care to give us a detail or two?

Stu

 

[Paul B]

Stu, I still run the RUGF. There is a many page thread about it on here called "Almost 35 year old reef tank" or something like that.
It is 39 years old now.
I don't want to hijack whatever this thread is about

 

[Ian]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15487927#post15487927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B

I don't want to hijack whatever this thread is about

:lol: