garlic/uv sterelizer oppinions from those who have had sucsses

[Neptune777]

70 days? Where did you get this info? ~35 days is the max I have seen in the literature.

 

[Grins]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10328499#post10328499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
70 days? Where did you get this info? ~35 days is the max I have seen in the literature.

I've read 5-8 weeks and am shooting for 6 weeks right now. But when I saw 70 days my eyes popped thinking I would be fallow even longer than I was planning.

 

[tmz]

Grins,
I just did a web search for Cryptocaryon irritans and marine ich and read the material. It's easy to find. There is some really good iformation including illustrations. I was also surprised by the 70 issue. While this is not the usual time frame for hatching, cyst viability has lasted that long. Most still go by the 28 day fishless rule.I went back and scanned a few pieces but can't find the piece with the 70-72 day reference. I know it's there but should also emphasize that this time frame is not the norm-yur 6week time frame may be very adequate.

 

[tmz]

Gins, I did find a reference on a second look. A two part article originally in FAMA was posted on the Saltwaterfish.com message boards. it is entitled,Cryptocaryon Update Part I".At about the middle of the first page it is noted:"....The time required for the tomonts to release theronts can vary considerable from 3-72days..."This is not the piece I was looking for but its"s the second time I"ve seen this 72day note.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10326193#post10326193 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
Thats an inaccurate statement - one that tends to be promoted by people who don't QT. If you have some authoritative support for your statement I would be happy to read it.

I have not had ich in any of my show tanks for over 20 yrs .. and yes, I have had power outages and all of the std "stress" events that others say will always bring on a case of ich.

Ich is just a parasite and if you have ich then you put it in your tank. Dogs aren't born with ticks and fish aren't born with ich.

Ich is easy to keep out of your aquarium .. just takes some QT. Further ... ich is easy to kill within a QT or hospital tank.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

You are right--I stand corrected---I try to stay away from making blanket statements or spreading misconceptions---but what can I say--there are very plausable misconceptions stated by many out here.

It is amazing I must of read that article above 5 or 6 times before and then when I went back there is was right in front of me:


"I want to be clear on this point. I do not believe Cryptocaryon irritans is always present in our systems. With a strict quarantine protocol, it is possible keep an Ich-free aquarium. I just believe that there have been enough hobbyists who have misused a treatment or utilized an ineffective treatment option, such that they never really fully conquered their initial infestation. Their continuing problems over the course of many months, and the posting of those experiences, seem to be enough to promote this aquarium myth. Cryptocaryon irritans can be eradicated from an infected system with a proven treatment and can be kept out of the system if good quarantine practices are employed."

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10333196#post10333196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
You are right--I stand corrected---I try to stay away from making blanket statements or spreading misconceptions---but what can I say--there are very plausable misconceptions stated by many out here.

It is amazing I must of read that article above 5 or 6 times before and then when I went back there is was right in front of me:


"I want to be clear on this point. I do not believe Cryptocaryon irritans is always present in our systems. With a strict quarantine protocol, it is possible keep an Ich-free aquarium. I just believe that there have been enough hobbyists who have misused a treatment or utilized an ineffective treatment option, such that they never really fully conquered their initial infestation. Their continuing problems over the course of many months, and the posting of those experiences, seem to be enough to promote this aquarium myth. Cryptocaryon irritans can be eradicated from an infected system with a proven treatment and can be kept out of the system if good quarantine practices are employed."

:beer: :thumbsup:

 

[TeeLapia]

cheers... I was reading up on those a month ago as well, while I was bored at work. Good articles in the magazine IMO

 

[Andrew]

Ok so we aren't going on and on... Here's a good article on the use of garlic for everyone to read:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php

 

[wooden_reefer]

repeat

 

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10326193#post10326193 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
Thats an inaccurate statement - one that tends to be promoted by people who don't QT. If you have some authoritative support for your statement I would be happy to read it.

I have not had ich in any of my show tanks for over 20 yrs .. and yes, I have had power outages and all of the std "stress" events that others say will always bring on a case of ich.

Ich is just a parasite and if you have ich then you put it in your tank. Dogs aren't born with ticks and fish aren't born with ich.

Ich is easy to keep out of your aquarium .. just takes some QT. Further ... ich is easy to kill within a QT or hospital tank.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/aquarium_fish_1.html

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

I agree. The ich organisms practise the most draconian birth control. All their offspring is required to leave one host and take its chance of finding another host, which in the ocean is quite small. It is therefore quite possible to eradicate ich in the tank.

One the other hand and consequentially, genetic variance in some hosts of having unusually high immunity against ich is also not rewarded and not much selected, I tend to think. Immunity against ich exists but should not be emphasized, IMO.

 

[wooden_reefer]

repeat

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10338779#post10338779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Andrew
Ok so we aren't going on and on... Here's a good article on the use of garlic for everyone to read:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php

this is another excellent article--I love this site for the references to great articles that they post.

I think you guys should set up a myths forum. I am a firm believer in trying to match the conditions of the real reef (as near as possible as one can in a contained ecosystem)

How do fish get rid of ich in the real reefs of the world?

 

[Andrew]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10343487#post10343487 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur


How do fish get rid of ich in the real reefs of the world?

Not really sure. Might be something to look up but I'll see if I can find out. Might have something to do with the size.

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10343487#post10343487 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
How do fish get rid of ich in the real reefs of the world?

The high reproductive rate of ich combined with an enclosed environment is what makes ich lethal. In the Ocean ich is akin to a flea on a dog .. a temporary nuisance.

 

[Andrew]

Guess that would make more since. There's tons of host out there so they just move from one to other.

 

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10343989#post10343989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
The high reproductive rate of ich combined with an enclosed environment is what makes ich lethal. In the Ocean ich is akin to a flea on a dog .. a temporary nuisance.

The last time I've seen ich in my "show tank" was about 25 years ago when I first started the hobby.

I have not seen a single case of ich since I started quarantine.

I think the way the QT is set up has a lot of bearing on the compliance of weeks of quarantine needed to eradicate the last ich organism. In my opinion, half-baked commitment in the setup of the QT accounts for a lot of problems. Most importantly, the QT has to be thoroughly cycled.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10343989#post10343989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
The high reproductive rate of ich combined with an enclosed environment is what makes ich lethal. In the Ocean ich is akin to a flea on a dog .. a temporary nuisance.

I can buy that--but they do get it and get rid of it-----it does question our way of dealing with it
a hypo salinity quarantine tank doesn't exist in nature?

I would think the only parallel in nature would be the healthy fish's immunity system due to proper feeding techniques??

I am asking here--not stating a fact

 

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10349120#post10349120 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
I can buy that--but they do get it and get rid of it-----it does question our way of dealing with it
a hypo salinity quarantine tank doesn't exist in nature?

I would think the only parallel in nature would be the healthy fish's immunity system due to proper feeding techniques??

I am asking here--not stating a fact

"They get it and then get rid of it"

This is possible, but I have not observed this.

Poor nutrition may well reduce resistance, but great nutrition cannot be relied upon to rid your tank of ich. It is a matter of chance that the ich population may explode.

There are many diseases that are related to nutrition, but ich is not one of them. The role of stress in ich, even if it exists, should not be emphasized, IMO.

Quarantine is effective, and with preparation, rather easy.

Why would one shun something ease and effective with respect to ich?

 

[Aquarist007]

I'm not down playing the use of a quarantine tank---they are a must and work the most effectively.
I was questioning the use of hyposalination when that doesn't occur in nature and the fish get rid of ich.

 

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10356767#post10356767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
I'm not down playing the use of a quarantine tank---they are a must and work the most effectively.
I was questioning the use of hyposalination when that doesn't occur in nature and the fish get rid of ich. [/QUOTE

I have no doubt that fish has resistance against ich getting attached to them, but I think this resistance cannot be promoted to probable (not to mention absolute) success in ridding ich.

Suppose such resistance cause 99% of the ich to fail to attach, then one percent does. The next bout, the offspring of the one percent, again has the chance. This offspring, may immediately cause explosion, or it just maintain the same odds. There is some chance that the fish may luck out and all offspring from the one percent fails to find a host.

A casino never loses money (in absolute terms though it may not make enough) even the odds are only slightly favorable. Ich may not be as efficient as a casino (ich has the last-game factor a casino does not) but I would not chance it at all.