GHA problem - more phosban?

t5Nitro

New member
back in march my tank was at it's 1 year with GHA.

It isn't bad but just annoying looking. Not clean like it used to be. I'm just curious if I need to be dosing my phosban than I already am. I looked at one guy's reactor and it appeared to be about half full.

I have a 125 gallon tank and use the TLF phosban reactor. I probably put in about 75 grams of media in at a time. I'd say the media is about 3" thick in the reactor. Do I need more to make the algae die off?
 
My system is about 350 gallons. About 5 years ago I had a really bad cyno and hair algea problem.

I went to war with the problem. This is what I did and it worked for me.

I doubled my water changes. I started changing about 20% of my water every 1.5 to 2 weeks.

I also got a much better skimmer. I went from an ASM I think it was a 5 to a GSA skimmer.

I used 1 cup of GFO per 100 gallons of water and 2 cups of carbon per 100 gallons. At the time I was using bitmunous carbon(I think it was black diamond) Now I use lignite carbon.

I would scrub with a plastic brush whatever rock I could reach and syphon out the hair algea and cyno.

I opened up my rock work and removed about half of it.

increased my water flow.

After doing this for about 2 months, much of the hair algea had receded. I would see much of it turning white and some would just come off.

Finally I began adding Kalkwasser which besides adding calcium and Alkalinity also binds phosphates.

I didn't start everything at the same time but I really decided to take it on as a war and kept at it.

I also had never really tested my water parameters a friend of mine kept telling me that if I didn't know where I was it makes it difficult to have an objective. I began testing my water parameters and I do believe this is important.(Although I will say after I resolved the issue I got back into my old habits)

I am proud of what I have accomplished with my tank. Once I got rid of the problem I really haven't had any issues. My display tank is a mix of some large SPS and LPS and a few softies.

A couple of months after I got the problem under control I slowly reduced the amount of carbon and GFO I use. I use them both 24/7 and change the media out once a month.

I hope this helps. Basically what I did was take everyone suggestions I got and applied them all.
 
I'm fighting the same war myself, again. But I've beaten this stuff in the past in freshwater, there's no reason I can't win in the salt too.

I've also thrown a good skimmer into the mix, a Remora Pro.

I just installed a 5-stage RO/DI filter.

I currently have a cannister filter, running almost empty other than phos-x (and ran a course of phosphate sponge through it as well). This is going to be replaced with dual phosban reactors soon. And I'm also gathering the goodies for a proper sump/refugium underneath.

Last water change, I used the old water in a bucket to dunk the rocks and scub with an old toothbrush. This took a tremendous amount of GHA off the rocks, which helps export everything. Since I cleaned it outside the tank, it didn't get all that crap floating around to re-anchor itself.

The nice thing is that most of the time, once you really kill the GHA it usually doesn't come back. That is, as long as you keep maintaining the tank. Keeping it out is a lot easier than getting rid of a major infestation.
 
Here are some more tips to add to the great posts above:

Capn's collection of shock and awe against algaeMost of the time algae is the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Algae needs three things for the process of photosythesis to occur--carbon dioxide, light and food. If we could completely remove one of these elements it would not be able to survive.
Unfortunately in our reef tanks it is difficult to remove light and carbon dioxide completely but we can sereverly limit its food, mainly nitrates and phosphates.

If you have an algae problem then it should be approached in a way that limits the nitrates and phosphates in your water column

This is a combination of steps and practises rather then one magic bullet that will kill off all the algae in your tank.

Here is a list of practises that have been mentioned through a great number of posts that I have been proactive in and hopefully if they are together they might help

1. Feeding techniques----always feed less at one time but feed more often if the species of fish requires it. My fish always look hungry and so does my dog--they learn how to scam us humans very quickly.
Rinse off frozen prepared foods like brine shrimp and mysis shrimp. Quite often they contain phosphates and nitrates from die off in their holding tanks.

2. Flow rates and directions of flow can make a big difference
A rate that is quoted here quite often is that you should have between 20-40 times your tank volume in gph if your tank is mostly lps and even greater if mainly sps corals. There are still some expections with lps corals--you need to be on top of the husbandry requirements for each coral you have and place them accordingly.

Organic laden water slowly rises from the bottom of the tank to the top where it is skimmed off by various methods such as an overflow. Skimmed water is usually sent back to lower levels of the tank from the skimmer or sump via various ways such as loc lines.

In practical words this means that in the tank your flow should be directed to always enhance the above natural flow in the tank.
It should for a circle or semi circle and be pushed down, across the substrate up to the surface--across the surface--churning it up and towards the overflow

3.flow rates in the sump
The perfered answer for this question is between 5-10 times the total volume of your water column.
More importantly it should match the flow rate of your skimmer.
Otherwise unskimmed organic laden water is returned to the lower levels of the tank where it has to slowly make its way to the top like I desribed in the above flow senerio. This gives algae a second chance to have another lunch
This is also where flow rates and directions in the tank also help in this particular situation by getting the water back up to the top and out the overflow faster again.

Flow rates both in the sump and the tank are very important in the filtering process

4.Method of cleaning or tank maintenance
water changes---Randy has written in one of his articles that the ideal water change to remove nitrates is 30 per cent once of month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
other reefers have stated that immediate or every two week 20 percent water changes will reduce phosphates and ammonia quickly.cleaning the rockwork and substrate--once a week take a turkey baster and lightly baste the rock and substrate with it. this will get dissolved organics, phosphates and nitrates back into the water column where they can be filtered off instead of collecting and adding to the algae smorgasboard. Once again flow is very important in this also.

change your protein skimmer cup every other day

if running a filter sock change it everyother day---soak it in bleach and run it through a wash cycle with no soap. Let them dry in the air and the clorine will evaporate

5. tweaking equipment. Try not to run bioballs in filters. Replace them and all filter media with nothing!
The best use of a canister filter is to run straight carbon in it.

take skimmer pumps apart once a month and clean out the air venturis--make sure you have lots of air being combined to give a good foam column. This helps reduce organics but it also helps displace carbon dioxide with oxygen and keep your pH stable.

Once you have your levels of phosphates and nitrates in check then you may want to consider

1. running carbon and phospban in phosban reactors. the advantage to these is the water is forced through the entire media and can't take the easy way around the outside as when the media is put in a bag. Carbon can adsorb some phosphates and nitrates and the carbon is used by active bacteria in the tank

2. setting up a refugium with chaeto algae. You will need a good size refugium 20-30 gals and about 2-3 months of intensive cheato grow for it to make a noticeble difference on phosphates and nitrates. and the other advantage of a refugium is you get a larger and more variety of copopods, other inverts and good bacteria for the water column
There are many examples on this thread:
Refugiums the good bad and the ugly
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1349443

3. finding critters that eat algae. I leave this till the last because it is a problematic solution to algae. the critters don't always do what they are suppose to do. Putting some inverts in to eat a particular algae is great at the start but what do they feed on after they have eaten their specific food source.4. another method that is cropping up alot more now is the use of magnesium. Magnesium should be at 1300ppm in a reef tank to support a level over 400ppm of calcium. some reefers have reported great success with cranking the level of magnesium to 1600 pppm for two weeks. the aglae dies off and none have reported any death to corals, inverts or fish.
This is discussed in detail on this thread:
A solution to Bryopsis
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...hreadid=1113109

Excellent threads on fighting alagePhosphate starvation
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1383158

should I add a phosphate reactor
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...ghlight=phosban

how to remove phosphates
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...ghlight=phosban

Related reading(thanks to Highlandreefer for compiling them)

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

The Complete Nitrogen Cycle
http://web.archive.org/web/200305101...&RecordNo=3090

Protein Skimming: How It Works
http://web.archive.org/web/200103090...skimmers2.html

Phosphorus: Algae's Best Friend
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2002/chem.htm
 
Very good posts. I think the general idea is you need to really go at the problem full force. if you do one or two things you may see results but generally it will take longer and may not produce the results you are looking for.

One correction to the above comment
1. running carbon. "Carbon can adsorb some phosphates and nitrates and the carbon is used by active bacteria in the tank"

Carbon adsorbs organic compounds in the water column. It will not adsorb Phosphates from your water. Carbon is an excellent product for removing organics and organics can release Phophates as they decompose. The GFO will adsorb the Phosphates in the water.
 
just remember with the phosban that you need to increase slowly i added too much the other day and my sps a few of them are bleaching a little ..
 
Same thing with Carbon. The added clarity can stress corals. I always recommend for both to start at 1/3 your target amount and each month increase 1/3. In 3 months you get to your target amount. This is just what I do and I have had no problems. This isn't to say other ways of slow introduction wont work.
 
I run phosban and carbon 24/7. Seems like the stuff never goes away. Based on posts I've nearly done everything that was mentioned including taking out rocks and scrubbing them outside the tank. I have to admit once I did that and removed nearly half of the rock, the growth is minimal and almost none is growing back on the rocks. Still some on the sand and glass and a little is on some rocks now coming back.

The things I have done are reduced water flow because I put some cardinals in there and new baby clownfish (which aren't that little now). I could up it (and I tried turning the koralia 4 back on) but the flow seemed to intense. I know it can't be with 2 koralia 4's and a return pump in a 125 6' tank but the LPS on the sand bed seemed to get slapped around quite a bit and the kenya tree was leaning all the way over. Flow in my tank sucks. It could just be the dimensions. Needless to say I'll probably leave flow the way it is. I'll try the upped water changes. Normally I've been doing about 5 gallons per week. I can try for 10g/week.

Thanks. If that doesn't help I can try more phosban?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14909631#post14909631 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by t5Nitro
I run phosban and carbon 24/7. Seems like the stuff never goes away. Based on posts I've nearly done everything that was mentioned including taking out rocks and scrubbing them outside the tank. I have to admit once I did that and removed nearly half of the rock, the growth is minimal and almost none is growing back on the rocks. Still some on the sand and glass and a little is on some rocks now coming back.

The things I have done are reduced water flow because I put some cardinals in there and new baby clownfish (which aren't that little now). I could up it (and I tried turning the koralia 4 back on) but the flow seemed to intense. I know it can't be with 2 koralia 4's and a return pump in a 125 6' tank but the LPS on the sand bed seemed to get slapped around quite a bit and the kenya tree was leaning all the way over. Flow in my tank sucks. It could just be the dimensions. Needless to say I'll probably leave flow the way it is. I'll try the upped water changes. Normally I've been doing about 5 gallons per week. I can try for 10g/week.

Thanks. If that doesn't help I can try more phosban?

to be sure it is not diatoms instead---get a test kit for silicates--alot of times it is easy to get the two mixed up and if there are silicates the diatoms will thrive despite the methods to reduce phosphates and nitrates.
 
Hey SeanT, I've been reading about cooking rocks as I too have been having a NASTY algae problem. I was just wondering, it's been over 4 years since you're thread about doing that started, how has it worked over this length of time? Do you still have the same tank and rocks set up? Or was everything replaced by that cube tank you built last year?
 
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