Ginger works with ich... Every time I use it
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The sculpin
New member
Just curious if you had a high school quality microscope could you see Ich in its free swimming stage in a water sample?
TankCla
SPSychology
In theory metro should not kill aerobic bacteria, and like many drugs, metronidazole is relatively inactive until it is metabolized within host or microbial cells. Metronidazole might work since it is used to treat Eukaryotes (human parasites like giardia and trichomonads). Ich is part of Eucarya domain.
And also, this is from their tech support:
"Metronidazole works best when used in a medicated food mix along with Focus and Garlic Guard. Focus will bind the medication to the food and add antibacterial properties. Garlic Guard enhances the flavor of the food mix, adds vitamin C, and the natural internal parasite removal properties of garlic. Putting in a food mix will keep the medication out of the water column and ensure the fish internalize the medication and better treatment results. While we do not market any of our medications as "reef/invert/plant safe," we have used the Metronidazole medicated food mix here in our saltwater tanks (with inverts and corals) at Seachem without any negative effects."
It is truly amazing what you can learn from a thread on a message forum. Today I learned...
Ginger has not been shown to be effective at curing ich. I never saw that coming.
The Internet wasn't actually started by scientists in the 50's and 60's, it was actually created by kids born after 1970. Amazing!
People over 50 are more docile, even though an alarming number of them are taking testosterone to help with things they would rather not mention. Testosterone now has the effect of docility in the 50+ crowd. I just turned 50 and will now avoid testosterone treatments, I do not with to become docile.
Vitz has a lawn. Allmost is wary of stepping on Vitz's lawn. :bounce3:
An RO stream is equivalent to a stream going into the wind.
The written word in a thread makes conveying emotion difficult, and it appears it also makes understanding difficult for some. I try to read everything in Walter Cronkite's voice, instead of Bobcat Goldthwait's voice, it helps.
It has been an entertaining read. :wavehand:
Ginger has not been shown to be effective at curing ich. I never saw that coming.
The Internet wasn't actually started by scientists in the 50's and 60's, it was actually created by kids born after 1970. Amazing!
People over 50 are more docile, even though an alarming number of them are taking testosterone to help with things they would rather not mention. Testosterone now has the effect of docility in the 50+ crowd. I just turned 50 and will now avoid testosterone treatments, I do not with to become docile.
Vitz has a lawn. Allmost is wary of stepping on Vitz's lawn. :bounce3:
An RO stream is equivalent to a stream going into the wind.
The written word in a thread makes conveying emotion difficult, and it appears it also makes understanding difficult for some. I try to read everything in Walter Cronkite's voice, instead of Bobcat Goldthwait's voice, it helps.
It has been an entertaining read. :wavehand:
The sculpin
New member
I'm going to catch all my fish and go fish less for a few months, should I catch them and trade at LFS for corals and buy and quarantine later or keep my fish and treat myself?
The sculpin
New member
Hahaha your welcome!
The sculpin
New member
My teenager says I am not allowed to use the internet anymore.
BoricuaMojao
New member
If you are going through the trouble of catching them, you might as well get an adequate sized QT and treat them yourself.
The sculpin
New member
Is it a pain to maintain medication level in the water?
The sculpin
New member
Is transfer method 100% effective?
blanden.adam
Team RC
Nothing is 100% effective, but it works pretty darn well.
I have about 55 fish in my system;no ich. I've treated dozens of them with tank transfer since I switched to that method over copper and/or hyposalinity. I've also treated dozens more for friends . Many delicate fish with reported sensitivity to copper also do very well with this method.
See the thread I posted earlier(post 139) for more detail.
Tank transfer also gives you a quick ammonia safe set up for quarantine since the water is changed 100% every 3 days, ammonia doen't have much time to form. It slao makes acclimation a breze since ou aclimate tehtank to the bag and not vice versa.
I do add a little ammonia detoxifier(AmmoLock) on the second day ,just in case. Since no meds are in use it's safe to do so.
I also keep a qt tank up and running for observation post tank transfer for other maladies that might emerge. Tank transfer is only for ich; it may have some effect on velvet but that parasite has a different life cyle. If for some reason that tank is down or being used for extra seahorse fry as it is at the moment, the 12 day period for tank transfer gives me sometime to get a tank cycling with seeded sponge material from my sump or filtration areas for the post tank transfer observation period if I need it.
See the thread I posted earlier(post 139) for more detail.
Tank transfer also gives you a quick ammonia safe set up for quarantine since the water is changed 100% every 3 days, ammonia doen't have much time to form. It slao makes acclimation a breze since ou aclimate tehtank to the bag and not vice versa.
I do add a little ammonia detoxifier(AmmoLock) on the second day ,just in case. Since no meds are in use it's safe to do so.
I also keep a qt tank up and running for observation post tank transfer for other maladies that might emerge. Tank transfer is only for ich; it may have some effect on velvet but that parasite has a different life cyle. If for some reason that tank is down or being used for extra seahorse fry as it is at the moment, the 12 day period for tank transfer gives me sometime to get a tank cycling with seeded sponge material from my sump or filtration areas for the post tank transfer observation period if I need it.
vitz
New member
i feel vindicated (as regards my pov on the 100% guaranteed wipeout of ich via hypo).
Hypo salinity is effective sometimes but not always. There are hypo resistant strains and mutations. You can only go down to 1.009 without harming marine fish since they have no way to maintain internal sg when the water sg is lower than their internal sg(1.008) as the outside water defuses into them. If their internal sg is compromised they loose homeostasis and their internal chemistry goes off which is lethal.
Many strains of cryptocaryon irritans live in brackish water. They mutate according to studies to acommodate sg changes. generationaly; a a generation last just a few weeks;so, it's possible such a mutation could occur during a long hypo treatment .
Personally, on several occasions when I used hypo salinity the ich disappeared after the 6 to 8 week regimen at 1.009 ,but then as I slowly(.001per day) raised the sg to ready the fish for the main display it came back when I hit 1.022 or so. Perhaps the cysts just slowed down at the lower sg and picked up th pace as it rose.
Of the 3 mainstream methods for treatment :hyposalinity, copper, tank transfer ;hypo takes the longest and is the least consistently effective ,ime. It is med free. Some still prefer it and that's ok ;done with care not to go too low . It just doesn't work all of the time and prolonged exposure to low sg water puts the fish's renal system on hold .if that goes on too long it seems atrophy might be an issue.
Many strains of cryptocaryon irritans live in brackish water. They mutate according to studies to acommodate sg changes. generationaly; a a generation last just a few weeks;so, it's possible such a mutation could occur during a long hypo treatment .
Personally, on several occasions when I used hypo salinity the ich disappeared after the 6 to 8 week regimen at 1.009 ,but then as I slowly(.001per day) raised the sg to ready the fish for the main display it came back when I hit 1.022 or so. Perhaps the cysts just slowed down at the lower sg and picked up th pace as it rose.
Of the 3 mainstream methods for treatment :hyposalinity, copper, tank transfer ;hypo takes the longest and is the least consistently effective ,ime. It is med free. Some still prefer it and that's ok ;done with care not to go too low . It just doesn't work all of the time and prolonged exposure to low sg water puts the fish's renal system on hold .if that goes on too long it seems atrophy might be an issue.
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The sculpin
New member
Ich is one evil bug!
Claud,
Thanks for sharingthe Sachem snippet.
"Metronidazole works best when used in a medicated food mix along with Focus and Garlic Guard. Focus will bind the medication to the food and add antibacterial properties. Garlic Guard enhances the flavor of the food mix, adds vitamin C, and the natural internal parasite removal properties of garlic. Putting in a food mix will keep the medication out of the water column and ensure the fish internalize the medication and better treatment results. While we do not market any of our medications as "reef/invert/plant safe," we have used the Metronidazole medicated food mix here in our saltwater tanks (with inverts and corals) at Seachem without any negative effects."
It doesn't make me warm and fuzzy about using it in a reef. I might feel better if they acutally took a stand on it or provided some data or at least left out the over statements on garlic guard. What intenal parasite removal properties are they talking about. There aren't any as far as I know.
It might be ok but it was discussed by several folks I trust a while ago and the consensus was against using it in a reef tank. I haven't seen any reports on success or reef safe applications so my opinion hasn't changed. I personally wouldn't risk it in a reef tank.
Thanks for sharingthe Sachem snippet.
"Metronidazole works best when used in a medicated food mix along with Focus and Garlic Guard. Focus will bind the medication to the food and add antibacterial properties. Garlic Guard enhances the flavor of the food mix, adds vitamin C, and the natural internal parasite removal properties of garlic. Putting in a food mix will keep the medication out of the water column and ensure the fish internalize the medication and better treatment results. While we do not market any of our medications as "reef/invert/plant safe," we have used the Metronidazole medicated food mix here in our saltwater tanks (with inverts and corals) at Seachem without any negative effects."
It doesn't make me warm and fuzzy about using it in a reef. I might feel better if they acutally took a stand on it or provided some data or at least left out the over statements on garlic guard. What intenal parasite removal properties are they talking about. There aren't any as far as I know.
It might be ok but it was discussed by several folks I trust a while ago and the consensus was against using it in a reef tank. I haven't seen any reports on success or reef safe applications so my opinion hasn't changed. I personally wouldn't risk it in a reef tank.
Dapg8gt
New member
=).
I still don't know why people go against the grain but claim it's NOT due to them being stubborn or lazy. The poor husbandry is beating my ich problem comes to mind for this comment just saying..
Totally disagree with the younger generation not doing research.. I research everything I do before I do it reef tank or not. The problem I think is the source just because you read it on the Internet doesn't mean it's true =). I am usually annoyed by vitz additions to threads but I gotta say other than the last few pages and that comment I agree with him and the need to spread misinformation and discredit every person trying to give the advice you asked for is worse than a condescending remark or tone any day in my book..
I also feel it has to do with how mature/stable a tank is. I know with myself and another local reefer with "older" tanks ich is not a problem. In fact a while ago a few infected fish went into my friends tank from another friends tank (emergency w/no quarantine) a risky move but a few days later the fish were visibly ich free.. It's been quite a few months and it hasn't visibly came back so I don't know what to say on that one.. Coincidence maybe but my 45 is going on 13 years w/no quarantine and I havent had ich since maybe year 2-3 +. I am by no means saying/advocating what I did or witnessed is proper or right it's just what I have observed. So maybe the age of the tank can have an effect on the immune system or fish resistance to the parasite Idk..
I do know i won't be using ginger lol and my newer tank has a running QT for future additions because I feel I gambled long enough and I'm not a lucky man in general.
Thanks for the entertainment guys.. And I do hope some people realise there is a search function on rc with an answer to almost any question you can think of..
The sculpin
New member
Plan on trying tank transfer method, I was thinking of making a basket out of acrylic that I would leave in the tank so I could remove and transfer all fish at once in stead of chasing them around with a net. Is there a chance of contaminating the next tank? Would it be a good idea to set up a third tank as a quick rinse between tanks?
Dapg8gt
New member
Have you researched tank transfer? The search tab on the top of the page =). You need a sterile tank to transfer into. You never know if there is a cyst on the cage etc.. It's introducing an unknown into the proven method imo that's not necessary..
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