Golden Puffer Gone Crazy

[e55MD]

Today, my Golden Pufer who used to be quite mellow has taken to chasing all my other fish around the tank. In fact, I never knew he could even swim so fast. He has tried to bite several of my angels and my clown and picasso triggers. Has anyone ever seen this type of behavior before? I just want him to go back to his usual calm self.

 

[saltyESQ]

maybe he's hungry?

 

[e55MD]

You might be right. My fish are now all in their 4th week in my 240 gallon hospital tank. Thier ich is totally gone, I have started removing the Cupramine and they have definitely perked up. The puffer has always had a difficult time competing with the angels and trigger for food- they are all much faster at grabbing it than him. I might try hand feed him but I would risk getting bitten by him or one of the triggers.

 

[JustinReef]

Well one problem may be the copper. Never treat scaleless fish with Copper!!!!!

You may see long term health effects due to the exposure. It can harm them pretty bad. Hopefully thats not why he's freaking out but I would think its due to the copper. He is probably also hungry.

 

[StayPuft]

It's probably the copper. My LFS treated a golden puffer for a few weeks with copper and then it went nuts. It was dashing around the tank for no reason. I know because I was looking at their fish and all of a sudden I see this gold puffer dashing around. So I asked them what's going on, I never saw mine ever do that. Theirs eventually died, stopped eating. Hopefully yours will pull through.

 

[JustinReef]

Any update?

I always worry when people use copper with Puffers

 

[e55MD]

He was still crazy before I went to work this morning. He won't eat but is most aggressive when the other fishing are eating their food. Really strange behavior. Does anyone know if Copper has been proven to cause this type of reaction in puffers?

I may have to separate him if this behavior continues. He is worse than my onery Emporer Angel. No aggresive fishes will be put back into my DT with any because I purchased a Conspicuous Angel for that tank which is going to be my showpiece. I would hate to see him attacked!

 

[LisaD]

Can you put him in another tank with no copper and no other fish? Have you tried feeding him from a stick? I used bamboo shish kabob skewers to stick feed my eels and angler.

You might try a large sterilite or rubbermaid container with some cured live rock, if you have any.

 

[LauraCline]

I have used coppersafe on a puffer with absolutely no problems, I've had him for more than a year since that treatment in fact. Are you sure the water quality is within acceptable limits? It could also be a space issue if the QT is on the smaller size.

 

[e55MD]

I am actually removing the Copper. I did a 100 gallon (almost 50%) water change yesterday. I do not think there is a space issue- my hospital tank is 240 gallons.
I have fed the puffer mysis which he does not touch. He eats both squid and krill but just spits them right out.

 

[JustinReef]

I think he is probably feeling kind of sick from the copper. I think it can harm some of their internal organs pretty bad which is why there is not always short term effects but in time problems show up. But you are maybe seeing him just feel really uncomfortable and he probably does not know whats wrong and therefore "freaks out". I have had puffers that got pretty aggressive when sick.

Honestly though I don't know what to suggest other than to get him out of the copper as soon as possible (which you are) and see if he gets happier.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13432284#post13432284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LauraCline
I have used coppersafe on a puffer with absolutely no problems, I've had him for more than a year since that treatment in fact. Are you sure the water quality is within acceptable limits? It could also be a space issue if the QT is on the smaller size.

A year is nothing for a fish that should live 12-14 years or more depending on the species. Never use copper with puffers. Even at low levels it can have long term health effects...a year is not close to long term.

 

[LauraCline]

Sorry I missed that it is a QT large tank. Any chance maybe he was overdosed or is just ticked off about being in a QT, you know how puffers "pout" if they get upset about something.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13432887#post13432887 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LauraCline
Sorry I missed that it is a QT large tank. Any chance maybe he was overdosed or is just ticked off about being in a QT, you know how puffers "pout" if they get upset about something.

That was my first though too...Puffers are so fussy.

But in a 240G he shouldn't get too upset I don't think.

I would be surprised if its something other than the copper. Without scales to protect them, copper is so harsh.

 

[e55MD]

Unfortunately, my 400 gallon DT is going to be staying fallow until the end of October. My 9" New Caledonia Emperor and 8" Scribbled Angel have also developed HLLE in the HT. This too might be copper related. I really have learned about quarantine the hard way!

 

[cichlid333]

yea i never use copper no matter what, i have used kick ich with mixed results most of the times it worked well and it is a 100% natural, copper is just bad news imo, have you tried lowing your salenity? and boosting up the temp? that method has worked for me on puffers before too

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13433865#post13433865 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by e55MD
Unfortunately, my 400 gallon DT is going to be staying fallow until the end of October. My 9" New Caledonia Emperor and 8" Scribbled Angel have also developed HLLE in the HT. This too might be copper related. I really have learned about quarantine the hard way!

Does copper cause HLLE? I have not heard that before but I really have no idea.

Hope this all works out for you.

Has the puffer calmed down at all? Is there any way to try feeding him on his own. Maybe he is just hungry.

Keep us updated.

 

[LauraCline]

"A year is nothing for a fish that should live 12-14 years or more depending on the species. Never use copper with puffers. Even at low levels it can have long term health effects...a year is not close to long term."

I understand that a year is not close to his normal lifespan however he has quadrupled in size since then and appears extremely healthy. I have no reason to expect he will not live out his full lifespan. Any long-term effects would have manifested symptoms by now. As far as the statement that even at low levels it causes long-term effects, do you have any links to research or study to prove that or are you just giving info out of the same books we've all read or are you speaking from experience?

 

[e55MD]

Well, my latest update is that my Puffer has calmed down and started eating mysis again. I am at a loss for understanding what happened to him.
In reference to the above discussion about the long term effects of copper on puffers (and all fishes) I am not aware if there is any reliable long term data out there. I would love to hear from the experts if there are any on this forum. I did read that Centropyge Angels are also "copper sensitive" species. My flame angel died on day 2 of Cupramine treatment (my only loss) so there might be some truth to this. On the otherhand, my blue-spotted puffer is as active as he ever was in spite of the Cupramine.
A huge amount of wild-caught fishes are exposed to copper along the chain leading from the ocean to your LFS. Many of these fishes live for many years in captivity in well cared for tanks. Their life-spans are probabably shortened just being in captivity but there are so many factors in play besides medications.

 

[LauraCline]

Glad to hear it sounds like he will be alright. I wish there was more concrete data on some of this stuff. Alot of the advice given here is spouted from books and info that are outdated or anecdotal and it is hard to discern the best methods.