Grading aquaculture clownfish

[BonsaiNut]

There has to be a little common sense used on severity as well. You can't sell fish that are completely missing the lower jaw or have exposed gills.

Yeah Walt I see where you are going, but I don't think the scale is going to be linear. For example, "A" grade fish are ALWAYS going to command a huge premium versus anything below "A" grade. So you might as well say "A" grade is 100% price, "B" grade is 25% price, and "C" grade is 10% price - because most people when presented with the options are going to want perfect, or "almost" perfect fish.

And you are absolutely correct - body flaws need to be defined as "minor" or "cosmetic". They can be seen but cannot in any way affect the health or well-being of the fish. So:

Acceptable body flaws:
Slightly crooked jaw
Slightly flat face
Slightly humped back
Minor gill flare
Minor asymmetry in fins
Etc.

Unacceptable body flaws:
Bent jaw that interferes with eating
Exposed gills of any degree
Bent / crooked spine
Incomplete or bent fins
Etc.

 

[WDLV]

I think we're on the same page with exception to the following....

Yeah Walt I see where you are going, but I don't think the scale is going to be linear. For example, "A" grade fish are ALWAYS going to command a huge premium versus anything below "A" grade. So you might as well say "A" grade is 100% price, "B" grade is 25% price, and "C" grade is 10% price

What I meant was that you have grades A-D on each specific factor. The scale I mentioned earlier could be modified to make the math easier for each sub-category.

For A. percula

1. Color and barring = 25% -100%
2. Body = 25% -100%
3. Health = 25% -100%

If you have a specialty fish like a picasso, obviously the price increases due to rarity so the A. percula scale is modified so that barring is not subtracted but color still factors in.

In addition, the A. percula scale is added into a picasso scale. So, maybe it only counts as 25% of the Picasso scale.

eg:
Percula Scale
Color - A (100%)
Body - B (75%)
Health - A (100%)

(100 + 75 + 100) / 3 = 91.7%

So the Fish still got an "A minus" on the percula scale but....

On the picasso scale the misbarring was covering less than 50% of it's body and was all one color. So lets say it got a "C."

If it got a 91.7% on the percula scale and a 50% on the picasso scale it would look more like this:

[(100 + 75 + 100)/3] + (50)
________________________ = 70.85%
2

So, this particular fish is worth 70.85% or grade "C" on the picasso price scale. I like the percentages better than a A,B, C scale because if it's a low "C" it will fetch less of the total price than a high "C."

 

[WDLV]

It wouldn't have to be measured with those exact values but I think it does need a formula rather than someone saying "oh that's a grade "B" and it gets to the customer and has bulging eyes and a misformed jaw. I have spent money on fish that didn't really fit what I thought I was paying for. Sure, it was an unusual species but the quality was in the mud.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

I don't want to get my new ORA Picassos (arriving at LFS tomorrow, pickup in 2 weeks) graded by you guys. Ya'll grade harsh. :lolspin:

May I ask, how does a breeder like ORA consider Grade A different than Grade B? How do they grade their Picassos?

 

[deangelr]

It seems to me that Body and Health are basically the same thing can someone explain the difference?

Also I am liking the A1-4, B1-4, C1-4 system better than the percentages, it just doesnt read very clean. Letters for Body plan, numbers for color and pattern seems like a good way to go.

 

[trueblackpercula]

It seems to me that Body and Health are basically the same thing can someone explain the difference?

Also I am liking the A1-4, B1-4, C1-4 system better than the percentages, it just doesnt read very clean. Letters for Body plan, numbers for color and pattern seems like a good way to go.

This is another great idea ....one of the biggest problem with this is without pictures none of this will never work. From an old coin collector sounds like we are getting close ti a grading system that just may work. But now that i think about it wht all the letters ???? whats wrong with starting evert fish with a 100 score and deduct from there? If a fish gets a 90 lets say then its worth 90% full price or is yhat ro easy?

 

[dma]

Death by vodka, huh?
Count me in.

 

[WDLV]

I don't want to get my new ORA Picassos (arriving at LFS tomorrow, pickup in 2 weeks) graded by you guys. Ya'll grade harsh. :lolspin:

May I ask, how does a breeder like ORA consider Grade A different than Grade B? How do they grade their Picassos?

Com'on man if we grade them, you'll get them for less $$$!

I'd bet they rate them on a glance and gut feeling. I doubt there's any science behind it.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Com'on man if we grade them, you'll get them for less $$$!

I'd bet they rate them on a glance and gut feeling. I doubt there's any science behind it.

I already payed for them. They were $100 each. :dance:
I'll let you take a crack at grading them if you promise to grade generously and then tell me they're very pretty and that you're not just saying it because I told you to. I doubt they'll have any black because they'll be rather young.

Maybe somebody should email ORA and ask them how they grade their Picassos. I've heard that a clown must have jigsaw patterns covering 75% of it's body to be Grade A. :worried:

 

[WDLV]

To be honest, I didn't really feel comfortable grading trueblackpercula's fish. It was only supposed to be an example of how a grading system might work. There's too much room for hurt feelings doing that. If there were an established rating system in place, there would be little or no arguement on how a fish arrived at a given rating... and that's really part of why I think this is such a good idea. I think it would help both the industry and the consumer to have a more objective standard by which to rate and price not just CB fish but wild ones as well.

 

[trueblackpercula]

To be honest, I didn't really feel comfortable grading trueblackpercula's fish. It was only supposed to be an example of how a grading system might work. There's too much room for hurt feelings doing that. If there were an established rating system in place, there would be little or no arguement on how a fish arrived at a given rating... and that's really part of why I think this is such a good idea. I think it would help both the industry and the consumer to have a more objective standard by which to rate and price not just CB fish but wild ones as well.

I posted the picture of my fish because i want people to see rhat we are all yrying to do a good thing here. I got my fish and they are tiny and are no mote then 7 months old if that. as soon as i can get some better pictures i will post them here. they are very active and are about 75 to 85% white no black yet. so on that note i started thinking should we add points fir fush that have more white?I think you did a great job grading them by the way and i feel they will only get better in time.

 

[trueblackpercula]

quick little video enjoy the show...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2te5hcGUTQ

 

[jake levi]

grading picassos

grading picassos

I like the system that Doni uses for grading hers, very clear and easy to see when you look at her pics.

Something similar is needed for the others, I like the A-B and the number system the best, KISS, it works.

But, I think it needs to be separate from the designer variants, ex rate a Picasso first on the Donnie Picasso scale and then secondly on the basic clown scale.

Two scales, but with real values for each.

 

[WDLV]

they are very active and are about 75 to 85% white no black yet. so on that note i started thinking should we add points fir fush that have more white?
I think you did a great job grading them by the way and i feel they will only get better in time.

I think that they should be rated on the designer goal. For "Snowflakes" or "Wyoming Whites" they should should be graded on the amount of white. In the case of "Picassos", they should be graded on a good blending of colors. Obviously this kind of rating will be somewhat subjective depending on who is looking at them.
A good question might be "how are calico cats rated in feline competition" because that's probably pretty similar to how one might rate a "Picasso" clown.

...and thank you! I tried to be as objective as possible.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

My LFS received my ORA "Premium" Picassos today!... But one was DOA.
The people at ORA wouldn't send out a new one unless the store payed $50 shipping, despite the face it was my birthday. I examined the one that arrived alive and it had no deformities. It had such a unique pattern, which was exactly the same on both sides. It had great symmetry. To be honest, it was one of the nicest picassos I've ever seen. I tried to get a pic but my dad's cellphone was being a weird and it wouldn't let me save it. His black was coming in great all around his white. His white was very bright and his orange stood out very well too. The store will get his replacement mate in two weeks when they order from ORA and I'll pick them up at the beginning of May. When I get them I'll post pics of both to be graded. I hope the replacement ORA sends is a nice one.

 

[WDLV]

Well I guess the following are in order:

1. Happy Birthday!!!
2. Congrats
3. My condolances.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Here are my babies. Two-year-old SA Fancy Ocellaris Clownfish. The female is 1.5" and the male is less than 1", which is strikingly small for their age. I'd love to get these graded by you guys. There are no deformities and their colors contrast well. The black is very rich, the orange is popping, and the white is super bright. The male is the smaller one with more black and the female is the bigger one with less black. Video...

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/s8r0aGWtJB8?rel=0&hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If somebody could grade them it would be great!
I'll post a video of my Picassos for grading when I get them. :0

Thanks in advance!

 

[WDLV]

I guess it's important first to know what it is that I'm looking at. Is this a A black ocellaris/regular ocellaris mix? A Darwin ocellaris/Solomon Island perc cross?
It looks a lot like Sanjay's "photons" which are hybrids.

 

[TheOtherReefer]

Just read through the thread. I think this is a great idea. There is only one problem I see in everyones grading scales. They ALL seem to be subjective. That's why they're so many different opinions. The grading scale has to be based on pure Objectivity in order for everyone to agree. Certain characteristics like humpback, etc will always be up for debate because what one person may see as a humpback might not be what someone else sees as a humpback. Grading scales should be based on concrete facts such as how many stripes connect on Picasso perculas or wether or not the dorsal fin is all black for an Onyx percula.

For example for Perculas:

If all 3 stripes connect on both sides then the grade is Snowcasso.
If at least 2 stripes connect on both sides then the grade is A.

Regardless of what size/shape/health the fish has the grading scale will be based on concrete evidence.

In other words, it is possible to have a bulldog/guppy/humpback be a Grade A because at least two or more stripes connect on both sides. The fact that the fish looks retarded sucks for the owner, but the owner can be confident that his little retard clown is a Grade A because of the facts.

Designer clowns. Grades should be based on exactly that.

I can outlne an entire grading scale for clowns based on visual objective evidence but that would take hours. I just want to give my 2 cents and if most are on board with this, then we can create it OBJECTIVELY.

Fwiw I have several years experience keeping/pairing/spawning Onyx Perculas, Picasso Perculas, Platinum Perculas and Maroons.


Subscribed!
Cheers

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

I guess it's important first to know what it is that I'm looking at. Is this a A black ocellaris/regular ocellaris mix? A Darwin ocellaris/Solomon Island perc cross?
It looks a lot like Sanjay's "photons" which are hybrids.

SA Fancy Ocellaris. They are orange ocellaris bred for black coloration. There were no black ocellaris bred to get this morph. To my knowledge there were no Onyx or SI percs bred in the evolution of this morph either. Here's exactly what somebody (I think Matt Carberry, president of SA) told me...

The fish you have there are mature examples of a selectively-bred variety of ocellaris commonly marketed from the breeder as "SA Fancy" Amphiprion ocellaris clownfish (SA=Sustainable Aquatics, a fish hatchery in East Tennessee). As far as I know, they do not have any black ocellaris in their "family tree" but are simply a selected-for color pattern in what was once a "normal" orange ocellaris.

Here's a pic of the female a few months ago...