Greenhouse project

[dendronepthya]

WOW! I must admit...I'm jealous

Gosh, don't be! I might never turn a profit on this thing

Perhaps you could install a small unit heater if you're concerned about temperature.

The greenhouse kit included a gas heater. I don't have the stats of the heater handy, but I am assuming it is the appropriate size for this model greenhouse. After reading Anthony Calfo's book, I may be faced with a gas bill of up to $500 per month in the dead of winter. Our greenhouses are different though, and mine might retain its heat a little better because of the glazing material. I really hope the heating costs will be less.

One question...does the house come with any sort of venting system, either on the ridge or sidewalls?

In the first and second picture you can see the two vents. They are motorized, and open when the exhaust fan turns on. In the third image, you can see where the 48" exhaust fan will be located(right in the middle of the far wall). The fan is operated by a thermostat.

Also, in terms of humidity, you may want to invest in concrete flooring to cut down on standing water, which can create disease and pest issues as well.

We decided to go with a combination of concrete and gravel. We will have a concrete footer all the way around the greenhouse perimeter, and a concrete path going down the center of the greenhouse. Everywhere else will be gravel. We chose to go this route for a combination of cost savings and drainage purposes. The location is unbelievably wet, and we needed to be certain it would drain properly. We are running PVC drainage lines the entire length of the greenhouse and burying them under about 8" of gravel.

 

[kozmo02]

that is really awesome, make sure to post pics as the progress goes on, i would like to see your greenhouse grow into what you want it to be. nice work, that is really really cool.

 

[scubadude]

Sweeet!

Sweeet!

Very Nice Dendro

Dude if you havent poured your flooring you really should consider burying some 55g cheap plastic barrels for geo therm...It would be easy and quick cheap cooling. I think your par rating for the most part will be adequate here are some lux readings I took for my tanks, granite our locales are different.

24" Deep tank mid water column non shaded tank in greenhouse
(readings taken 12noon no clouds)
60,000 Lux

24" Deep tank mid water column under 250w DE HQI ushio 10k
(readings taken 12noon indoors)
9,300 Lux

So even with 50% shade cloth on the brightest days you can get more lux to your tank than some MH's

Rocky

 

[dendronepthya]

I just took some measurements today at noon with my Apogee Quantum meter. It is a partly cloudy day today, and I was getting the following readings:
Outside:
1000-2000 micro-einsteins depending on cloud cover.

Inside the Greenhouse:
450-950 micro-einsteins depending on cloud cover.

My tank at home:
650-680 micro-einsteins
The lights I have over my tank are 250W DE HQI with 440W or VHO actinic. The MH bulbs are quite old however.

Overall, I am pretty happy with the kind of light I am getting in the greenhouse.

 

[dendronepthya]

scubadude,
I'd like nothing more than to have a geothermal setup in this greenhouse, but I don't know if I will be able to implement one at this point. You did give me an interesting idea though. It would be cool if I could find tall 100+ gallon containers that I could half bury around the inside perimeter of the greenhouse. I could then plumb them together and run the whole setup with one circulation pump. The exposed portions would essentially act as radiators. It would be cool, but again, I don't know it it can be implemented at this point. Maybe next time.

 

[veng68]

How about using those 300 gallon rubbermaid containers?

Cheers,
Victor Veng68

 

[JPerkins]

Interesting thread Dendro, keep up the updates!

 

[Sir Knight]

Hi dendronepthya,
I have a greenhouse setup for Corals 16 W x 30 L x 8' H feet about the same square feet that you will be using and the same covering. I am located in TN. I tried some Arco's over the summer to see if I could keep them without supplemental lighting. I am sorry to say that they bleached in a week however, my softy's and LPS's are doing great without any additional lighting. After some additional fans and keeping the tanks on the ground I was able to keep the temp down to 82 degrees when the outside temp was 90+. I must say I did get some ideas and help from Anthony Calfo. He is a great help.
The tanks I am using are fiberglass 240 gallon each 8' x2'.
I have the back of the greenhouse facing the east and the front facing the west with a southern exposure. I know what you mean about cost. My first project plan had a cost limit of $20,000 after some rework I have doubled it and still came in $5,000 over budget.
I was using airlifts for water movement (6 - 1" lifts) per tank with a 1/2 blower. I have added 3 more lifts per tank and added two power heads and I now have the water movement I want.
Each tank runs independently With a 6" sandbed, live rock, a skimmer (My Reef Creations) and carbon filters. I have been doing bi weekly water changes, about 30% per change and I clean the skimmer twice a week. I add kalkwrasser daily and feed different foods daily.

My second project will be SPS's. I have come to the conclusion that I would have to supplement about 6 to 8 hours a day if I keep them in the greenhouse and then deal with all the additional heat from the MH. What I am doing is taking 17 x 30 feet of my basement and making this my SPS coral room. I will have 2- 240's, 2 - 120's, 4 - 150's, 4 - 90's. I will also have a 210 and 65 as show tanks. I will be installing an air exchanger to keep the moisture levels down. I will be running 250 watt 20000K MH lighting on each tank. I will run the lights at night to lower the over all heat.

Keep us up to date on your progress and good luck with your project
Joe W.:beer:

 

[dendronepthya]

How about using those 300 gallon rubbermaid containers?

I considered it at one time, but there were two things that made me shy away from burying them. First, the temperature will tend to be close to the ground temperature, which is 50 degrees. That's pretty cold, and I might be faced with an uphill battle to raise the temperature in the tanks. The other problem I saw was all the crouching down I would have to do to get corals in and out of the tanks.

Another benefit to having the tanks raised off of the ground is I can use the area under the tanks for storage space.

I am located in TN. I tried some Arco's over the summer to see if I could keep them without supplemental lighting.

That's too bad. Do you think that was from a lack of lighting in the summer? From the measurements I took, I would think that corals would be getting a lot more light than they would in an aquarium during the summer. Could they have bleached from overexposure? I am assuming that you are now keeping acropora colonies again with the supplemental light? The reason I ask is because when a friend and I were at Tropicorium in Romulus, Michigan, we would make fun of their hanging pendants because they didn't appear to be much brighter than the light that was already in the tank, and they would cast a shadow making another part of the tank dark. Obviously they felt that they needed the extra light, but they did whitewash their glazing to reduce the light. I am hoping that by me leaving the glazing clear that enough light will get in to grow the SPS.

I was using airlifts for water movement (6 - 1" lifts) per tank with a 1/2 blower. I have added 3 more lifts per tank and added two power heads and I now have the water movement I want.

Are you happy with your blower? I was planning on buying a 3/4HP vane compressor to run airlifts and reverse carlson surge devices(RCSD). The plan for the time being was to have 8 air lifts and one large RCSD in each tank to provide a combination of laminar flow and periodic surge. I am in the process of designing this setup with someone and it is up in the air right now as to whether the RCSD will be large enough to create a strong surge. I may need two. In any case, I really like the idea of having all the tank's circulation driven by air power. It is cost effective and disaster resistant since none of the electrical portions are submerged. Right now, this system is a tad expensive, but I think I will really appreciate it once I have everything installed.

Good luck with your greenhouse. Are you selling online?

 

[derrikd]

looks like a great project cant wait to see the pics with the tanks

 

[Sir Knight]

No I don't think it was from to much Light because then the softy's would have died. I think it has to do with the amount of Sunny days vs. cloudy days and the PAR. If you are using a lux meter to measure light you may want to get a PAR meter. It will give you a much better idea of the type of light you have. The example that comes to mind is 4100K vs. 10000k, 20000k Also if you talked to Dick and Anthony they will also say that you will need to supplement light for SPS corals. I think Anthony supplemented with 20000k bulbs and he was using a coving that was 100% UV. I talked to them but I had to see for myself so I gave it a try. But what the hey give it a try you can always add lighting
Also, with the covering you are using you have 85% UV or 15% filtering of UV. If it is the same stuff that I am using and I think it is.

The blower that I am using is producing. When it is running it uses about 5 amps of power. The only maintenance that I do with it is clean the in take filter once a month. It is a Sweetwater regen blower.

If you will be using 300 gallon tanks with 8 lifts it may be close to the water movement you need but you may not have enough water movement however with that size compressor you should be able to add more airlifts as needed

Joe W. :beer:

 

[esmithiii]

I would try using some surge devices for good water flow. You can really do alot with little $ if you don't have to worry about how it looks on a display tank.

As for geothermic cooling, a labyrinth of pipes burried 2-3' in the ground would do wonders, and the cost is minimal. The big pain is renting the ditch-witch and laying it all in there. Less work than a sprinkler system though.

Joe- How come I never met you when I lived in Knoxville? Do you belong to the reef club there (I organized the first few meetings)

Ernie

 

[tdwyatt]

stupid questiion, I guess I must have missed the point, but why use the airlift technology when there are the newer high efficiency water pumps that will move 3500 gph on an amp of electric? Is there a real advantage to using the airlifts? Or is this so inexpensive that for the size systems involved it is a no-brainer?

 

[dendronepthya]

tdwyatt,
The reason for airlifts in large sized growout tanks is two-fold. It is less expensive to set up, and less expensive to operate. While it is true a 3000 GPH exteral pump can be used, how much flow is that really in a 300 gallon tank? Assuming it is adequate, you would need ten such pumps to operate a 3000 gallon facility. That solution would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $3000 for the pumps and simple plumbing supplies. The pumps will also draw about 10 amps of electricity.

An air lift system operating on a single blower costing less than $1000 can operate the same volume of water at under 5 amps depending on the number of air lifts.

The air powered system also has the benefit of having all the electrical components out of the water. There is no danger of stray current or leaking seals. The numbers, plus the simplicity of the system (only one piece of equipment to service) led me to choose the air-powered route.

The only thing that has me wondering right now is whether I can use a high output blower for airlifts and reverse carlson surge devices or will I need a compressor to handle a higher pressure load. Not too many people have statistics on the backpressure of reverse carlson surge devices. If I was using just airlifts, a blower would be an easy choice.

 

[Sir Knight]

Hi Ernie,
I moved to Maryville in April from Orlando FL where I was the Webmaster for ORCA. The reef club down there. Yes I'm a member of East Tennessee Reef Club. I'm the Webmaster and one of the clubs starters the second time around. We had our first meeting at "The Coral Reef" in May. We now have 23 members. Herre is a link to our website when you get a chance check it out

http://www.easttnreefclub.com/index.html

Why don't you move back to Knoxville and help us out alittle

Also, ETRC won first place for websites at MACNA in KY this year

Joe W. :beer:

 

[esmithiii]

Joe-

Awesome! I did a ton of work organizing the first couple of meetings, and then slacked off due to an overwhelming work schedule. I have had the owner(s) of the Coral Reef at my house many times, and they got all my coral when I moved (a ton of SPS and softies) to Indy. I am glad to see the progress of the club as I did a lot of running around to try to get the Aquarium and Aquatic Specialists involved with the club. (That was before The Coral Reef opened up.)

We just missed each other- you moved in in april and I moved out in June.

Can I still be a member even though I moved away?

Ernie

 

[las]

hi

 

[ri]

Very nice setup. You'll have to post more pics as the project progresses. And my wife thinks I'm crazy because I want to convert an old 10 x 12 shed into a greenhouse...

Have you ever been out to visit Dick Perrin at Tropicorium in Michigan? http://www.tropicorium.com/ He has a large greenhouse setup for saltwater critters with a small section for tropical plants. Very interesting place to visit.

Good luck!

 

[kmacartney]

That is so awesome! Let me know when you are going to be giving tours. I would love to check it out.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Nice progress, Dendro. Lemme know if you want a cactus for the greenhouse...I got a perfect candidate!