Has Anyone Tried a "Rubble Bottom?"

[lillibirdy]

Alhoa Charles,

I was wondering if you read this thread? It seems that for some detritus isn't as big a problem as you would think, and many ways are mentioned to deal with it, (including the ones you mentioned). I have a reverse flow UGF and am not finding it much of a problem in my rubble zone. And there has been much posted lately about the critters that love to inhabit such rubble possibly making what detritus there is, inert.....lots of possabilites to think about in this thread, that are new to most of the reefers I have met.

Kathy

 

[Paul B]

Hello there Kathy. I also think detritus becomes inert in time. For the most part it is organic and when the organics are gone due to bacterial action, whats left is like lint. It may clog some pores or cause problems because it limits flow or traps more fresher, more organic detritus but besides that I feel it becomes inert. I am fairly sure that the detritus that was under my UG filter plates for the 25 years before I cleaned it was not causing harm or even building up much.
If it was, my animals would be in trouble.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[lillibirdy]

Hiya Paul, anything new and interesting goin on in your tank or your life? Ya got any more stuff from the ocean lately? You still gotta feed sorta heavy for that Moorish Idol? How is he doing? How long has it been now that you've had him now??

 

[Paul B]

Kathy, How are you? I don't want to hijack the rubble thread so I will keep it short. I still feed too heavy because of certain gorgonians, copperband and the moorish Idol. I am putting the Idol on a low fat diet. Much too fat. The copperband still loves worms. I don't remember when I got him but It is not a year yet. The tank is still very good. I built some new lights, the old PC housing warped. I built a new one with a fan. The RUGF is still good, no change. 23 more years and I will have to clean it again. I got a pair of blue striped pipefish a few months ago. Real nice fish. Nothing else new, will start to get the boat ready next month and get back into collecting. I want to get a lot of codium seaweed this year and I ran out of sponge for the Idol.
Hope all is well with you.
Take care.
Paul

 

[Paul B]

Kathy the Moorish Idol is just over two and a half years. here is the copperband.
You've seen the Idol many times.
Paul

 

[lillibirdy]

I first put Copperband, then edited to put Moorish Idol, I was confused....lol. Lookin great!

 

[Paul B]

I thought I saw copperband, then I saw Moorish Idol. I thought I was getting senile.

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6879724#post6879724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCDelbeek
The use of rubble is neither a new idea or a revolutionary one, it is again another example of the great wheel of change rotating yet again.

This is quite true of course, and still the question remains, how best to utilize it

to me rubble is on the order of a minimum of 1" diameter and a maximum of 2-3" diameter.

This seems to be very much in the spirit of this thread. I wonder what we should call 1/4" to 1" dia. stuff ?

unless a means is found to remove or consume it, there is shall remain ... and accumulate.

Both methods have been discussed here, but the "consuming" part has been sort of accepted as a potential advantage for promoting "fauna" that would make good fish food, but without much support from experience, as to whether this "cycle" might really be adequate for detritus removal ( by way of consumption only ).

Comments on this aspect or question I'm sure, would be highly appreciated.

The Plate and flow versions have been discussed also, and I think the majority in this thread would prefer to do this type of thing on an occasional basis, or elsewise such that the previously mentioned "fauna-consumption" method could-would remain valid.

Thanks for your reply, and could you comment on these questions, regarding "detritus control" ?

Thanks > Barry

 

[spoon25]

im fairly new to the hobby, done alot of reading, and i have personally have about a 3 inch sand bed with another 2 inches of refugium snails and rubble on top of the sand...this way if detritus does go under the rubble the worms will come out and eat it and then the bugs will go hide inside the snail shells....i never have done a siphon yet to the bottom rubble, never had a nitrate problem...it seems to be workin...anyone see any problems with that idea?

 

[Paul B]

worms will come out and eat it and then the bugs will go hide inside the snail shells.

OK.

I don't know what to make of this but
OK

 

[mr.wilson]

I get a lot of "live rubble" (1"dia.) from the bottom of live rock boxes. I use it in my refugiums. I find it to be a superior substrate to that of aragonite sand, as it allows for more sites for copepods, amphipods, serpulid worms and micro-plankton. Sand is more conducive as bacterial film sites, a position well covered by the display tank sand and rock surfaces.

My refugiums have a very large plenum, of sorts, (6" deep) with vertical rows of egg-crate to provide sites for benthic invertebrates (sponges, squirts, worms, pods, barnacles etc.). I place the rubble rock on egg-crate (above the plenum) without plastic screening, to allow the detritus from the Chaetomorpha culture to classify through to the lower plenum (benthic zone).

Motile and sessile invertebrates have a steady supply of detrital nutrients from the refugium above, slow flow rates, no light and adequate surface area in the rows of egg-crate. All sumps eventually populate with these benthic invertebrates, but the limiting factor is the lack of suitable sites for them to populate.

The upper "refuge zone" is only 5" deep. I find that only the first five inches of a refugia receive enough light for photosynthesis. The lower levels house old growth that slowly dissimilates and returns its' catch (phosphate, silicate, nitrate etc.) to the water column. The shallow depth allows me to quickly move water through the Chaeto, thus keeping it free from detritus. Rubble rock allows it to keep on truckin' to the lower benthic zone where it can be consumed.

The two levels (refuge & benthic) allow for compact, efficient naturalized zones. I call it the "Duplex System". The refuge zone (upper level) utilizes macro algae to assimilate and export nitrates, phosphates, and silicates. It also uses rubble and macro algae to provide adequate surface area and nutrients for natural food production (amphipods & copepods etc.). The benthic zone (lower level) fosters the growth of detrivores and water polishers. Detritus migrates from the display into the refuge, then into the benthic zone where it can be assimilated naturally by the resident fauna.

 

[Konadog]

Well, I finally was able to take a few (crappy) pictures of the rubble bottom tank at the Long Beach Aquarium of the Pacific.

 

[Paul B]

That is certainly rubbly :eek1:

 

[lillibirdy]

Wow Konadog, that sure is interesting. Thanks for posting those pics. A bajillion little hiding places in that rubble. I don't think I am fond of the look of branches/sticks tho, prefer chunky irregular rubble piles for asthetics.

 

[lillibirdy]

Mr Wilson, BIG welcome to this thread!!! Thanks for the interesting post, and diagram! Can you post some pics of your tanks??

 

[mr.wilson]

Thanks Lillibirdy. Here are some pictures of current projects, in varius stages of development.

 

[Chicago]

is that tank floating... more pics please

 

[lillibirdy]

How deep is that floating tank? What a trip!

 

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6950444#post6950444 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lillibirdy
How deep is that floating tank? What a trip!

The dimensions are 72"L x 12"W@ctr x 28.5"H. The tank is elliptical with a bow on each side. It tapers down to about 3" wide at the end.

It is suspended by engineered aircraft cable. Stainless steel tubes are used to conceal the wires and plumbing. The one in the picture has a 400 gallon sump that is shared with a 72 gallon bow-front reef.

I don't want to hijack a good thread, so I posted some more pictures in my gallery.

Back to a related topic; Does anyone have a tank with a slab rock substrate? I've done some with colonial polyps and mushrooms in the past, but nothing recently. I found that they harboured detritus, and in the case of some polyps (palythoa & zoanthid) they generated a fair amount. Yellow polyps and tree polyps, on the other hand, were fairly clean and perhaps beneficial.

 

[BOBG]

I am currently living in China and the concepts here of fresh water and marine tanks go against what we believe to be the optimal setups. I've been here almost 5 years and just now decided to re-enter the reef world.

I have seen many tanks here with 2" gravel only with no UGF a powerhead with a foam filter and change water once a month using straight tap water (note: we don't even drink the water from the tap) iin fresh water tanks.

For marine tanks, they use coral rubble about 1/4" in diameter by 1/2" long pieces about 1" deep. For filtration they are using wet/ dry trickle filters. They are using 48" tubes usually one daylight and one 5000k tube. they do about (chinese just guess at everything) 20% every month. The only thing they add is fresh water top off from the tap and Specific gravity of 23 for water change, temp 29 centrigrade.

What's amazing is they have beautiful thriving tanks and inhabitants.