Head shaking, blotchy fins, light patches

[LobsterOfJustice]

Hey all,

I normally find this kind of thing annoying... but my thread over in the disease treatment forum isn't getting a lot of attention. If I could get the input of some of you fish heads I'd greatly appreciate it.

The full story:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2562535

The short version:

Regal angelfish is twitching his head and breathing heavy, it gets better during prazipro treatments but comes back after. The DT has been through 4 treatments.

Several fish (regal angelfish, copperband butterfly) have blotchy cloudyness on their pectoral/tail fins that comes and goes.

Cleaner wrasse has a cloudy eye.

All fish are eating well. Water quality is fine, tank successfully houses a mixed reef and all corals are healthy. At first glance everything looks fine but it's only once you start looking closely you notice little imperfections with the fish here and there.

I want to get this under control before if becomes an outbreak, and I'm willing to remove the fish and treat them, but I don't know what to treat them for/with.

And yes, I quarantine all my fish... but only observationally (no prophylactic treatments). That will not be my policy going forward.

 

[ThRoewer]

Sounds like flukes.

 

[jbvdhp]

Sounds like flukes.

It does to me too

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Suggestions for treatment since prazipro at normal dose didn't work?

Planning on removing the regal and dipping him, but at some point I will have to treat all the fish and let the tank go fallow.

 

[Dmorty217]

Suggestions for treatment since prazipro at normal dose didn't work?

Planning on removing the regal and dipping him, but at some point I will have to treat all the fish and let the tank go fallow.

Praziquantel powder maybe. I know PP and that are basically the same. Could be flukes, I would want to verify with a dip.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Head shaking, blotchy fins, light patches

Assuming a freshwater dip on the regal finds flukes, I think my plan is going to be to try to catch and remove the wrasses and then treat the display tank with a double dose of prazipro.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I did a thread on PraziPro and getting rid of flukes a few weeks ago here in the Reef Fishes forum.

With all of my research on the use of Prazi to get rid of flukes I found a thread where the OP had contacted one of the Chemist's at Red Sea about Prazi and not getting rid of some of the flukes with multiple treatments. The Chemist said that there are a few species of flukes that need a much stronger does than the normal dose of 1 tsp per 20 gals. Instead it needs to be treated at 1.5 tsp per 10 gal or triple the normal dose. I did this in my tank with no ill effects accept for the flukes :hammer: it got rid of all of them.

All of my fish were fine as well as my corals and inverts. I do not have any shrimp. Corals were a little frumpy for a few days but once the treatment was finished and I did a 50% WC and running carbon to remove it from the system all is well. I have a lot of small brittle stars that I was worried about but they're fine as are the bristle worms.

I'll look around for my thread and add it to this post as soon as I find it.

Found it rather quickly

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2556460&highlight=prazipro

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Suggestions for treatment since prazipro at normal dose didn't work?

Planning on removing the regal and dipping him, but at some point I will have to treat all the fish and let the tank go fallow.

You don't need to remove the fish and go fallow with having the flukes. The stronger dose is needed, you can read my thread on it.

You can do the dip if you wish but it's not necessary with using the dose of Prazi of 1.5 tsp per 10 gal of water, it's all in my thread

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2556460&highlight=prazipro

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Thanks I will read that thread.

The reason for removing the wrasses is that they haven't reacted well to the normal dose in the past and I would worry about them at a 3x dose. Maybe I can remove them to QT and treat them via baths/dips and 3x dose the rest of the tank.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I have a McCosker's wrasse and he had no problems with the triple dose. Still ate like the pig he is

But I think you'll be fine with that plan

 

[suta4242]

Your problem may well be flukes, or maybe something else in conjunction with them etc...

I don't think praziquantel is a cure all for all flukes, although it certainly nukes many of them. Since the fish are in the display, I guess your only course of action is prazipro; there may be other options if the fish are eating well.

Good luck and I hope you resolve the issue.

:wave:

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I was able to remove the copperband and dip him (while he was displaying blotchy cloudyness on fins) - I examined the dip water and I don't think anything came off of him. Still waiting for the regal to get a little more comfortable with the trap, but I will dip him as well when I can catch him. I guess it's good that the copperband didn't have flukes, but now I don't know whats causing his cloudy fins...

 

[Dmorty217]

So you see blotchy white type spots on the pectoral and tail fins or just on the body?

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Head shaking, blotchy fins, light patches

Mostly on the fins, but I assume that is just because it's easier to see there. Occasional dull spots on the body. I guess "opaque patches/blotches" would be a good way to describe it.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Dipped the Regal - I examined the dip water closely, and although there were a lot of small dusty particulates, there was nothing that I think are flukes based on the descriptions I've read online.

I've had low levels of ich in the tank since getting in to the hobby, I just never went through the ordeal of letting the rock and corals go fallow so I know it's always been there at low levels. I wonder if ich in the gills is causing the regals head twitching? And the marks on the fins and body - maybe that's bacterial? Although I wouldnt expect bacterial diseases to exist long term at sub-outbreak levels and display symptoms that come and go. I'm not positive the opaque marks arent just coral stings - I do have a lot of euphyllia.

 

[Dmorty217]

I seem to have the same issue with one of my Regals suddenly. I plan on dosing PP at 2xs the dose and using nitrofuracin green just to help ease the fish. The regal was just in CP but the spots never seemed to come off of the tail, much like what you describe

 

[ThRoewer]

Ich also causes the head shaking with regals. Sometimes they do it also if there is nothing but possibly some dirt caught in their gills.

Gill and skin flukes would be one of the few cases where cleaner shrimp can actually bring relieve. If you see your regals consulting the shrimp a lot, its a good indicator that there is something going on that may require intervention.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

My male clown had the white blotches on his tail fin both sides and a nasty fluke right in the middle of the white patch. The first dose seemed to get rid of the fluke but not the white patch. The triple dose of Prazi cleared it up within two days at that dose. I never would have thought to triple dose it until I read the email the chemist sent to the OP of the thread telling him that a few different species of flukes need the triple dose.

I'm happy to say my tank is clear of flukes for now and no more head shaking, visible flukes on the skin and no more white blotchy areas.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

My original plan was to remove the wrasses and treat the display with a 3x dose of prazipro, but wouldn't flukes have been diagnosed in a 5 minute freshwater dip?

Does a freshwater dip offer temporary relief from ich? I'm interested to see the how the copperband and regal this look week after both getting dips this weekend.

 

[Dmorty217]

My original plan was to remove the wrasses and treat the display with a 3x dose of prazipro, but wouldn't flukes have been diagnosed in a 5 minute freshwater dip?

Does a freshwater dip offer temporary relief from ich? I'm interested to see the how the copperband and regal this look week after both getting dips this weekend.

The freshwater dip will provide temporary relief for the ich but it will be short lived.