Help! Mystery Killer??

Tripspike

Tripspike

New member
I have been without my saltwater tank for about 9 years. I decided to start it back up about 6 weeks ago. It is an extra tall 42 gallon tank 30" x 30" x 12" wide. I began with some live rock from a local store and some base rock I had left over from my previous setup. I also uesd 60 lbs of live sand.

The tank ran for about three weeks and I then put some additional premium cured live Fiji rock into the tank. Everything seemed to be running fine. The water tests I conducted were as follows:

Salinity: 1.021
pH: 8.0
Alakalinity: 270 ppm
Temperature: 80.4 F
Ammonia:<=.5
Phosphate:.1
Nitrate:0
Nitrite:0
Water Hardness: 280+ ppm Very Hard
Copper: Not detectable

I introduced 10 turbo snails into the tank and 10 hermit crabs. The crabs seeemed to die off about 10 - 15 minutes after entering the tank. The snails never moved but I assume they died just as quickly.

I took a water sample to the store and they found no problems with the water. pH and alkalinity a little high. I did a 20% water change and used the pre-made water to ensure a good water change.

I introduced three hermit crabs after the water change and they all died within 5 minutes of entering the tank.

I then brought another sample to the store and they tested it again and found nothing out of the ordinary. I decided to put two Green Chromis in the tank. I thought they might be a little heartier than the crabs and snails. I acclimated for about an hour and introduced then into the tank. The fish swam about checking out their new environment. They looked healthy. I went upstairs to cook dinner for guests and came back about 1 hour later to find both fish dead.

I am at a loss and so is the store I go to. They are very knowledgeable and have some great reef tanks set up at the store. I am not sure where to go at this point. I am looking for any suggestions on where to head next.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Trip
 
Well for one your salinity is waaaaaaaay to low. 1.021 is about 28.25 ppt and natural seawater is 35 ppt. Inverts and fish can not handle this and drives them into osmotic shock==> dead animals. One hr for the fish in not long enough, it should be many hours and for the crabs and snails it is a no deal at all that low. And ammonia at .5 ppm is way to high, needs to be near zero. The all died from "Double Jeopardy"
 
The alkalinity is also too high, although I don't think it's high enough to kill animals. Have any pH buffers been added to the tank? They often cause problems.
 
I have a Coralife hydrometer and it it reads 1.021 or 28.5. It is within the window range of 1.020 and 1.023 as indictaed on the hydrometer for salinity.

" Read specific gravity on inside scale and salinity in parts per thousand (ppt) on outside scale. Recommended specific gravity is 1.020 to 1.023 for most marine aquariums. Rinse with freshwater after every use."

It should be at 1.025 - 1.026?

I also used a Tetra easy strip for ammonia. The reading comes up between 0 and .5

Trip
 
That reading is for fish only tanks not reef tanks.... ever. And it is still wrong. That does not mean take a fish from the LFS and do a 1 hr acclimation and then put him in it an he will be OK. What is the salinity at the LFS ?


Here is something to look at;

Look where it says Salinity

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters (a summary general article)
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

I would not be using ammonia strips, but a salt water ammonia test kit.....period
 
Your tank is probably ok, but your water has a problem. You do not slit-bag and release in marine tanks---that's begging for ich, for one thing. You need to drip-acclimate, over time, and your parameters should be:
Nitrate, ammonia at zero
salinity 1.025
alkalinity 8.3
calcium 400
ph 8.3
temperature 80.
Salifert test kits will give you reliable readings.
Personally I'd recommend a refractometer over a hydrometer: hydrometers can be fatally off because of a bubble you didn't see on the swing-arm.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7898446#post7898446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
That reading is for fish only tanks not reef tanks.... ever. And it is still wrong. That does not mean take a fish from the LFS and do a 1 hr acclimation and then put him in it an he will be OK. What is the salinity at the LFS ?


Here is something to look at;

Look where it says Salinity

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters (a summary general article)
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

I would not be using ammonia strips, but a salt water ammonia test kit.....period
Click to expand...
Boomer, most LFS keep their fish in 1.019 to 1.021 range. I really doubt its the salinity.

Honestly, none of the normally tested parameters are off enough that they shoudl kill fish in an hour. I'd say we've got some sort of contaminate issue.
 
Well, most fish don't stay long in the LFS, either, but I agree that the fish shouldn't have died if the SG given is actually correct.

I agree with a contamination problem as being fairly likely. If the SG comes back as reasonable, I'd suggest a lot of carbon, water changes, and maybe a poly filter.
 
most LFS keep their fish in 1.019 to 1.021 range

And many fish stores do not.

And you guys are talking about fish. Do not forget he also said snails and crabs are also dead within minutes. A shift in SG from 35 ppt to 28.5 ppt and ammonia at .5 ppm is allot of stress in 1 hr. But shipping bags are higher than that in ammonia, so it is not that by itself by a long shot. If he just dumped in those inverts or even over an hr. is way to much for them and we could expect that.

We have to start somewhere and is why I asked what the LFS SG was. Even very, very high copper levels will not kill fish or inverts that fast. The only thing I can think of that is that fast is extreme temp shock, like 20 degree shift instantly.

I'm not saying it may not be something else but in 40 years I have never seen or even heard of things dying that fast. An O2 guess, no, something would have to be sucking up all the O2 as fast as it enters the tank. And it can't be excessive CO2 either, the numbers are all wrong. And chlorine /chloramine won't kill that fast either. .

A mystery toxin ? It would have to be some very, very nasty stuff. If there is something, I would expect something that is killing O2 uptake. If it was I would not trust water changes, carbon or poly's but a complete start from scratch. Everything goes out of that tank to the garbage and the tank is rinsed/soaked in vinegar, to include filters, boxes, tubes, pipes etc. I'd even can the salt mix used.
 
pH has been confirmed at 8.4. Salinity double/triple checked with current hydrometer making sure there are no bubbles: 1.022.

Further testing to be conducted on Thursday upon arrival of my test kits.

Thanks to this point for all help and suggestions.

Trip
 
Re: Help! Mystery Killer??

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7897964#post7897964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tripspike
I have been without my saltwater tank for about 9 years. I decided to start it back up about 6 weeks ago.
Click to expand...

Here is my take.

I'm with Boomer. I cant believe those inverts died that fast. Or the fish for that matter. I think the tank was not cleaned real well after sitting 9 years and there was some contaminent that was not properly taken care of.

I guess my first question is, when you started your tank back up, how did you prepare it ?

I'm thinking there is some nasty stuff in that water that you didnt test for.
 
Yah, something like some type of organophosphate pesticide would do it that fast.
 
Thats what I was thinking. Maybe wherever he stored the tank for 9 years could have collected a number of contaminants.
 
We thoroughly washed the tank with soap and water and rinsed it out then let it dry. The tank was stored in the basement with the hood on it, so it wasn't really that dirty inside.

The store salinity is 1.022. Better test results tomorrow.

Thanks,

Mike
 
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