help needed with zoa losses

I definately dont have as much experience as lot of the folks posting here.Especially, when it comes to sps,but as far as Zoa/paly's go Ive rarely lost any and have good luck with them.Have around 50 or so colonys.
As you already know I had a similar issue with some of mine.

I have had the best luck with straight H2O2 from the bottle ,I dont dilute it at all and submerged for up to 3 minutes.I haven't seen any negatives from it,ime.

Hope im not going to get beatup to badly here for saying this ,but I've used the redslime remover product a few times.Aware of the 02 drop and the effects on ph,that aside I didnt have any issues with using it.The first time I used it was with the direct intent of killing redslime,afterward I seen a noticable improvement in my my zoas.I followed up with a series of 25% water changes over a 2 week period.
If the Furran2 has the same active ingredient as the redslime remover ,I dont see why it would be more of a concern,both are bacterialcides?

I havent found the need to consider carbon dosing or supplemented Eaa's ,so far anyway.

B-Shots are looking awesome.Gl with everything.
 
Good points Tom...thx for that!

Pascal...just an fyi, but those Galaxy paly's were picked up at the swap? FWIW, mine look exactly as yours do right now. They haven't opened up yet. I'm not implying anything lol, just that mine look the same.
 
Blurry said:
great stuff here. I dipped another 8 frags or so, this time 25% H2O2 followed with revive. the limp fellow from above is clean now, but still limp.

I'm very intrigued by your mention of carbon dosing. In my naive mind I have associated carbon dosing to nitrate reduction which is not something I have needed (probably due to the automatic water changer running). The interest is sparked by the reality that I do not feed the tank a lot, and try to make sure the food is consumed by the fish on the way down.

so after much googling and reading you have helped me find a lot of folks in the same situation as myself (which doesn't add any comfort). the good thing is that there is a lot of references to vitamin C dosing helping this issue and helping tanks as a whole.

as to the benefits of vitamin C versus vodka I'm eager to learn :)

the decision -
(1) should I do a red slime remover treatment as an anti-bacterial. I'm not convinced this is bacterial
(2) start carbon dosing - probably vitamin C as that seems to be successful.
Click to expand...

Well the organic carbon is a nutrient too. The third one often overlooked since we can't measure it and obsess on it like we do nitrate and phosphate.. Dosing organic carbon also encurages bacterial growth which may ,some argue, feed the food chain from the bottom up. If the tank is deficient in nitrogen ,however, the bacteria which need that too won't use the organic carbon which can lead to a harmful buildup. Coral mortality has bee3n linked to high total organic carbon levels. Feeding and fish help here and some use aminos to, among other things, get a nitrogen supply. Some even dose nitrate along with carbon dosing when a nitrogen difficiency is suspected.

Saw your pm; been busy; so didn't answer . Don't know about red slime remover treatment for zoanthids. If it is an antibiotic, which I think it is ,it is likely to be specific to certain bacteria and not others.

I have not used vitamin C(aspartic acid). Randy Farely has with some negative results. It's an awful lot like sugar, chemically ,which has given me trouble with coral recisson and browning.Sugar contains the monomer glucose which has been linked to coral mortality in some studies.
FWIW, I use vodka and vinegar and have for 2yrs and 8 months with good results in terms of nutrient control, absence of nuisance algae and coral health. Now, I also keep a lot of well fed fish so there is no shortage of stuff in the water from day to day but the carbon dosing does keep the N an P down , adds bacteria and other organisms that feed on them and so on up the food chain.

The difference between vodka/ vinegar and carbohydrates and monomers like sugar and the derived vitamin C is that ethanol (vodka) and acetate(vinegar as acetic acid) come later in in the anaerobic digestion process, also known as acetogenis or mehtanogenis.
In a simple view: carbohydrates(polymers) are broken down by certain bacteria to sugars and other monomers: the monomers ferment or are broken down by other processes to fatty acids and at some point to ethanol (vodka).Further along ,bacteria take the process to acetate. All organisms use acetate. Deep in the ocean or in swampy muck the process goes another step to mehtane gas .
So I like to start further down the cascade of bacterial activity and avoid fermentation and other processes ,ie the monomers and processes involved in breaking them down which do seem to cause stress for some corals.
Just my take on it. Others like vitamin C but I really don't think it does much more than provide a carrbon source and for that I prefer vodka and vinegar.
 
You are welcome Jacwil.

I've not tried hydorgen peroxide. Thanks for sharing your experience, Gravis When used straight from the bottle, is this the typical stuff we get in the pharmacy.
 
H202 as a dip makes sense to me although zoas are about the only corals I would consider doing this on. Another heavy oxydizer I use (not for corals but willing to test this out) is KMnO4. I dissolve and dilute the crystals to be used for some fish parasites. When I was a kid we also made little bombs out of it.
 
Potash(ptassium permaganate/KMn)4) could work as a dip, It is a strong oxidizer which should leave only maganese and potassium behind; I think. If you decide to try it ,please keep us posted. Just don't mess with it and strong acids together or those childhood explosions may come back. Don't know if it will stain containers or your fingers though.
 
tmz said:
I've not tried hydorgen peroxide. Thanks for sharing your experience, Gravis When used straight from the bottle, is this the typical stuff we get in the pharmacy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, nothing special.I just grabbed the bottle whitch reads the only active ingredient as Hydrogen peroxide (stabilized 3%).Thought I'd list it in case there are more concentrated forms available,whitch I've never tried.
 
I guess while were on the subject of dips,have any of you guys ever tried household bleach as an antiseptic?
Obviously were talking dilution here.I've heard butchers commonly use it to sterilize equipment.
From what I can tell ,a common recipe they use is 5-10ml of Cl to about a gal of water.I've never tried it but have been curious about drumming up a concoction as a dip.
 
Using KMN4,yeah, that stuff is powerful.I've never heard anything about using it for parasites or as a dip,thats interesting.

I do remember years back some hearing of people dripping it directly into DT as an alternative to O3.I dont think I have the guts to try that.That seemed scary to me.
-Steve
 
Looks like your on to something Pascal.I'm kinda surprised,and didn't think you would see nitrate reading that low.So, does this mean vitamin C is off the table?Just curious is all.

Honestly man,I really thought it might of been some rouge bacteria/infection of some kind.We've both seen each others tanks and chat abit outside the forum.What got me was those bloodshots have actually doubled in size,while others (galaxys) suffered and some zoas as well.
Head scratcher for sure.
Well I got no advice,but I'm glad you posted this up,certainly learned some things from it.

-Newbie Forever
 
tmz said:
Potash(ptassium permaganate/KMn)4) could work as a dip, It is a strong oxidizer which should leave only maganese and potassium behind; I think. If you decide to try it ,please keep us posted. Just don't mess with it and strong acids together or those childhood explosions may come back. Don't know if it will stain containers or your fingers though.
Click to expand...

It isn't something I would suggest hobbyists trying at home. Although now I am curious and plan to do a legitimate test on its effects on corals. It can stain containers a bit but not fingers. My father used to make me dip cut or wounded fingers in a lightly diluted solution to prevent infections. Works great for that. I will update this topic soon in another thread.
 
KMnO4 was the main ingredient of a water clearing product my mom was trying out on her freshwater setup. I never thought I would see it used in reefing :) Seems like such a powerful agent for our delicate animals.
 
Gravesj1s said:
Looks like your on to something Pascal.I'm kinda surprised,and didn't think you would see nitrate reading that low.So, does this mean vitamin C is off the table?Just curious is all.

Honestly man,I really thought it might of been some rouge bacteria/infection of some kind.We've both seen each others tanks and chat abit outside the forum.What got me was those bloodshots have actually doubled in size,while others (galaxys) suffered and some zoas as well.
Head scratcher for sure.
Well I got no advice,but I'm glad you posted this up,certainly learned some things from it.

-Newbie Forever
Click to expand...


the KMn4 sounds like a fun project for when this is behind me.

my nitrate has always been low on the main system, probably due to the water changer covering my rear. The PO4 is somewhat dis concerning - I think it crept up on me as I started using the PPM hanna meter because I was running out of packets for the PPB meter.

most interesting is that the PPB reads .045, but the PPM reads 0.0

The level isn't horrible, but needs to go down. I'll let the HC GFO do it's job

continuing to add VC at increasing 1PPM per day. so far I haven't seen any new losses. VERY PREMATURELY, there are some magicians which look to be openeing up more than before.

Two new T5s in, another tonight (one every two days or so).

I'm going to work on adding additional water flow with an oceans motion squirt (think the 4 way is a bit much for this tank). thought at at time is to put 4 uniseals into the bin just above water level and put a mag7 or so on it from the sump. Need to sit and think it over :)
 
I use the older hanah meter; it's ppm . Am I missing something?;wouldn't .045ppb equal just .000045 ppm and be within the range of error inherent to the meter. Even 45 ppb wuld only be. 045 ppm, which wouldn't hurt anything
 
tmz said:
I use the older hanah meter; it's ppm . Am I missing something?;wouldn't .045ppb equal just .000045 ppm and be within the range of error inherent to the meter. Even 45 ppb wuld only be. 045 ppm, which wouldn't hurt anything
Click to expand...

The phosphorous PPB meter reads 15 which converts to .045 ppm phosphate. I was more concerned with the uptrend from previous readings. Looking to stay below .03

That and I feel like SPS Look great, however growth has reduced
 
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