Help SPS corals dying slowly
- Thread starter Staisman
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fishresponse
New member
Tagging along as I've had similar issues as you.
Staisman
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DId you read the whole thread? There are a lot of suggestions.
Staisman
New member
If the solution I made is correct then my aquarium water is 1.029SG. Would it be a cause of my problems? How about fish? Can they tolerate such high salinity ? Because I have no issues with fish, no illness signs or abnormal behavior.
anthonys51
New member
That's too funny. I think someone suggested to check your salinity. Didn't you blow them off.
Sps are very moody and tricky. I had them growing for 9 months in my current tank ( tank is only 9 months old). I had a baby June 13th. Kind of didn't test or watch my tank as much but June 29th 3 sps colonies lost color, 5 large frags died alk because my alk went from 8.5 to 7.2 in 2 weeks. This is why I am now testing daily for alk. It's is the most important thing in your tank for sps and it's the easiest to test But yes I would think salinity at 1.029 would be a problem with sps. I know the guy mention the Red Sea , but my acros didn't come from the Red Sea
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HappyReeferLOL
New member
Read your whole post and am amazed that your corals are still dying in your new tank. Ive had a reef tank for 5 years but no hard coral only soft, so I am still new to this hobby. However, here is something that has not been mentioned: Do you have a house keeper that could be using aerosol furniture polish that maybe finding its way into your tank? Could she be using windex on your windows that are next to your tank? Have you had a bug exterminator that could have used powder or spray inside your home? I know from my own experiment that reef rock that has been in a high nitrate and phosphate enviroment can soak up the no3 and po4 and release them slowly over months in a tank with new saltwater and nothing else. So that makes me think this, I agree with you that you overdosed the NoPox, and possibly to the point it was toxic which could have been soaked up by your rock and is still being released. Hope your tank begins to recover soon.
Staisman
New member
The thing is I didn't think that calibrating solution could expire. I do calibrate my refractometer every time I use it. It just happened I found a thread where somebody mentioned that his calibration solution was off and thats when I decide to check mine. I have two bottle 2 years old and both of them shows different numbers. I just ordered milwaukee digital refractometer that doesn't need calibration fluid.
make no sense. i use nopox and kno3 to keep everything at 0, which is one of the best carbon source out there. i cleaned my tank once every3-4 months that's if i decide to clean it to take pics. glass stay so clean and corals color and growth are great.
anthonys51
New member
You don't need to keep nitrates and phosphates at zero. Nopox works great it can stripe the water of both quickly. Just saying with sps his levels whereby causes them to die. So no reason to add something especially when you aren't sure what killing them. More variables you add harder to balance the equation. Not saying people don't use it successfully just saying it wasn't needed in this case. To many people think nirtrates kill sps. I had mine at 25 for 9 months.
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fishresponse
New member
I did and have been through similar troubleshooting. Haven't done the triton test yet. need to try that before I do anything else.
Oh my;
So many opinions posing as fact in some posts :
A few notes including my opinions/reactions and some facts to consider as I read through it:
NOPOx is organic carbon dosing mostly ethanol and acetic acid. similar to the mix of vodka and vinegar I've used for 8 years. It won't strip PO4 like gfo does but does encourage heterotrophic bacteria that will reduce it significantly provided they have the other nutrients they need like nitrogen,etc; BTW these bacteria when provided with an organic carbon source take up ammonia in a one step process preferentially to NO3 which they also use though. This leads to less nitrate production from ammonia oxidizers due to the competion by the heterotrphs.
ro/di producing water with a tds over zero is not working and may be releasing high concentrations of harmful elements;
API test kits are fine,IME;
9 dkh is ok but constancy is key; I prefer 8.5 or so currently though I've run the system with mid 9's and no problems:
salinity matters and cosntancy is also important; 1.028 might be ok but IMO 1.026 is better;1.020 also mention would probably kill a lot of things over time.
there have been some issues with the Titron tests in terms of process and accuracy; I wouldn't rely on trace element data form them for actionable information;
more frequent smaller water changes help constancy ; I prefer 1% per day.
nitrates of 1ppm or less , preferably around 0.2 work well for sps including delicate types;
turning off the skimmer not only stops aeration ,it leaves stagnant water in the skimmer and reduces the removal of organics; if you must turn of the aeration for some reason just unplug the airline and let the water keep flowing. If high pH is the issue the aeration will help it drop via the increased gas exchange with room air;
I don't think NO3 kills snails;
If you choose to dose nitrate I'd use sodium nitrate in very small amounts( I use 1 tsp for 700gallons) every ten days or so for example.
Vermetild infestations can stress corals; other pests like tegastes and coral eating flat worms can also be an issue.
So many opinions posing as fact in some posts :
A few notes including my opinions/reactions and some facts to consider as I read through it:
NOPOx is organic carbon dosing mostly ethanol and acetic acid. similar to the mix of vodka and vinegar I've used for 8 years. It won't strip PO4 like gfo does but does encourage heterotrophic bacteria that will reduce it significantly provided they have the other nutrients they need like nitrogen,etc; BTW these bacteria when provided with an organic carbon source take up ammonia in a one step process preferentially to NO3 which they also use though. This leads to less nitrate production from ammonia oxidizers due to the competion by the heterotrphs.
ro/di producing water with a tds over zero is not working and may be releasing high concentrations of harmful elements;
API test kits are fine,IME;
9 dkh is ok but constancy is key; I prefer 8.5 or so currently though I've run the system with mid 9's and no problems:
salinity matters and cosntancy is also important; 1.028 might be ok but IMO 1.026 is better;1.020 also mention would probably kill a lot of things over time.
there have been some issues with the Titron tests in terms of process and accuracy; I wouldn't rely on trace element data form them for actionable information;
more frequent smaller water changes help constancy ; I prefer 1% per day.
nitrates of 1ppm or less , preferably around 0.2 work well for sps including delicate types;
turning off the skimmer not only stops aeration ,it leaves stagnant water in the skimmer and reduces the removal of organics; if you must turn of the aeration for some reason just unplug the airline and let the water keep flowing. If high pH is the issue the aeration will help it drop via the increased gas exchange with room air;
I don't think NO3 kills snails;
If you choose to dose nitrate I'd use sodium nitrate in very small amounts( I use 1 tsp for 700gallons) every ten days or so for example.
Vermetild infestations can stress corals; other pests like tegastes and coral eating flat worms can also be an issue.
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Staisman
New member
Nice info Tom, maybe you also know why my corals are dying ? lol
So from your post we can make a conclusion that NoPox will not cause such damage, water parameters are fine, nitrates are also not an issue, what we have left?
About skimmer, we all know that amount of CO2 in the air lower PH of the water. By running a skimmer we aerate the water, so we supply more oxigen into the water. So more oxigen = higher PH. So if you turn the skimmer off we should get lower PH numbers. Or I am totally lost.
So from your post we can make a conclusion that NoPox will not cause such damage, water parameters are fine, nitrates are also not an issue, what we have left?
About skimmer, we all know that amount of CO2 in the air lower PH of the water. By running a skimmer we aerate the water, so we supply more oxigen into the water. So more oxigen = higher PH. So if you turn the skimmer off we should get lower PH numbers. Or I am totally lost.
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Oxygen has nothing to do with pH. More oxygen does not equal higher pH. It's driven by CO2. The CO2 in the room air will be at atmospheric levels or higher . Aeration will thus bring pH that's high (say over 8.5) down.
I don't know what's killing them It could be many things singularly or in combination but there are some possible trails noted: Sg variations, Alk variations,post di tds,pests,a toxin,possibly lighting Sorry for your troubles.
If it were my tank ;I'd clean it out ; frag the sick corals ; establish constant parameters lighting and flow for starters and check out the di resin to run 0 tds.
I don't know what's killing them It could be many things singularly or in combination but there are some possible trails noted: Sg variations, Alk variations,post di tds,pests,a toxin,possibly lighting Sorry for your troubles.
If it were my tank ;I'd clean it out ; frag the sick corals ; establish constant parameters lighting and flow for starters and check out the di resin to run 0 tds.
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anthonys51
New member
Nopox doesn't kill sps. But the op tank is all over the place and him using nopox is just another element in his tank being unstable. He stripped his water of nutrients then dosed nitrates back in. Sps don't like change. Imo nitrates of 20ppm is better than having 20ppm then 0 ppm then 10 ppm
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I don't know if the tank was stripped of nitrogen and phosphate; the measures provided are unclear. However, it is possible for a nitrogen deficiency to occur when dosing organic carbon as the heterotrophic bacteria consume some nitrogen along with phosphate ;while at the same time, anaerobic denification is occurring releasing more nitrogen from the tank as it bubbles out of the tank as N2 gas. Dosing a little sodium nitrate in those instances seems to help create a better balance between phosphate and nitrogen; both are needed by living things.
In my case, FWIW, dosing vodka and vinegar enables heavy feeding while maintaing PO4 at 0.02 to 0.04ppm per hanah with NO3 undetectable to barely detectable per salifert. Once a week or so a very small dose NaNO3 keeps things healthy and apparently well balanced.
In my case, FWIW, dosing vodka and vinegar enables heavy feeding while maintaing PO4 at 0.02 to 0.04ppm per hanah with NO3 undetectable to barely detectable per salifert. Once a week or so a very small dose NaNO3 keeps things healthy and apparently well balanced.
Staisman
New member
No need to exaggerate, I never had 20 ppm of NO3, and I never had more than 0.1 PO4 in my tank. I never had algae problems either. I dosed some nitrates after I had 0 nitrates and I did it slowly, it this didn't resolve the issue.
So from 5 ppm I stripped to 0 and then added some to have 1 ppm.
We do not know for sure that NoPox is why my corals are dying. I don't use Nopox for at least 2 month now and thing are not getting better.
All other parameters are stable. my Alk always at 9 Dkh and my Ca is always at 480-490 ppm. I do not dose anything else but my corals are still dying.
I dropped my salinity lvl to 1.027 as of today and I will drop it more in a couple of days. If this will not help then it's not the water problem.
My RODI water is always at 0 tdm. So I know it's not that.
I replaced 100% of water when I moved my tank along with my sand and the problem is still there. The Triton test also showed no problems with water.
The only thing have left is some sort of parasites that I don't see.
Staisman
New member
So let me conclude.
I started this thread 4 months ago because my SPS started slowly to dye. Polyps would not retract fully and eventually body of the coral would be covered in algae. (please see pics on the first page.) I had a big colony of Stylo and it started to dye from the bottom up. LPS wasn't affected back then.
I had no algae problem, my PO4 was at 0.04 ppm and my NO3 was unknown because I didnt had a test kit. After I got a test kit and it showed 0 NO3. That's when I thought NO3 is a problem. So I bought some KNO3 and rise my nitrates up to 5 ppm over the course of a couple of days.
I tested my RODI water for both FCI and TCI and it was 0. my TDS is always at 000 on TDS meter.
I switched from Read Sea coral pro salt to Blue bucket Red Sea salt as was suggested to eliminate swings in ALK after WC.
That was 75 gal DT with 55 gal sump. I had 1 clown fish, Purple Tang, Fox Face, Damsel, Mandarin, pair of leopard wrasses, flame angel, Two shrimps (both dead now), sea star, sea cucumber.
one month ago I moved everything to my new house to 150 gal DT and 55 gal sump. I used all fresh salt water and new sand. I only moved rocks and fish. No casualties.
New tank and same problem but I don't have SPS corals anymore. I lost all my SPS including 10'' plate coral. Now it was turn for my LPS corals. I had 10 head torch which is dead now, my mushrooms are all shriveled and stayed small. I also have a huge candy cane and two RBT anemones which are doing fine. My hammer head coral would stay at 50% of its usual size. I have another purple torch which is dying also. The skeleton turned dark and its loosing flesh.
I don't dose anything except Alk and Ca, same amount every day. My Alk is 9 Dkh and my Ca is 450 right now. You can see all the numbers on the Triton test. I do 20 gal WC every two weeks. my NO3 right now at 5 ppm and PO4 at 0.04 ppm.
I feed my fish two times a day, Algae pellets during the day and two cubes of PE misys at 7 pm.
I do the same routine for 3 years now. Nothing really changed.
I started this thread 4 months ago because my SPS started slowly to dye. Polyps would not retract fully and eventually body of the coral would be covered in algae. (please see pics on the first page.) I had a big colony of Stylo and it started to dye from the bottom up. LPS wasn't affected back then.
I had no algae problem, my PO4 was at 0.04 ppm and my NO3 was unknown because I didnt had a test kit. After I got a test kit and it showed 0 NO3. That's when I thought NO3 is a problem. So I bought some KNO3 and rise my nitrates up to 5 ppm over the course of a couple of days.
I tested my RODI water for both FCI and TCI and it was 0. my TDS is always at 000 on TDS meter.
I switched from Read Sea coral pro salt to Blue bucket Red Sea salt as was suggested to eliminate swings in ALK after WC.
That was 75 gal DT with 55 gal sump. I had 1 clown fish, Purple Tang, Fox Face, Damsel, Mandarin, pair of leopard wrasses, flame angel, Two shrimps (both dead now), sea star, sea cucumber.
one month ago I moved everything to my new house to 150 gal DT and 55 gal sump. I used all fresh salt water and new sand. I only moved rocks and fish. No casualties.
New tank and same problem but I don't have SPS corals anymore. I lost all my SPS including 10'' plate coral. Now it was turn for my LPS corals. I had 10 head torch which is dead now, my mushrooms are all shriveled and stayed small. I also have a huge candy cane and two RBT anemones which are doing fine. My hammer head coral would stay at 50% of its usual size. I have another purple torch which is dying also. The skeleton turned dark and its loosing flesh.
I don't dose anything except Alk and Ca, same amount every day. My Alk is 9 Dkh and my Ca is 450 right now. You can see all the numbers on the Triton test. I do 20 gal WC every two weeks. my NO3 right now at 5 ppm and PO4 at 0.04 ppm.
I feed my fish two times a day, Algae pellets during the day and two cubes of PE misys at 7 pm.
I do the same routine for 3 years now. Nothing really changed.
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ostrow
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Just ignore him, and enjoy your day. My $.02
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