GMaquarium
New member
Tank needs a weekly 40% water change. Skimmer is not a must. But maintenance must overcompensate for lack of filtration.
Help with a tank going down hill
- Thread starter Jstn
- Start date
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
x2 and Reef Crystals are fine to use.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
Jstn
Member
Bulbs are under a month old, he is looking for a hob skimmer now. Moved all the coral to my tank, and they are already looking better. We also moved the clowns and snails to a 10 gal tank. I think the next step is remove the sand and wash it in old tank water, followed by a 100% water change.
I never knew cyano produced toxins, I'm sure this is the major problem. In addition to a skimmer a mp10 is in the near future. Thanks for the help guys , I will keep this thread updated.
I never knew cyano produced toxins, I'm sure this is the major problem. In addition to a skimmer a mp10 is in the near future. Thanks for the help guys , I will keep this thread updated.
If the sand is old and loaded with crap consider restarting the tank barebottom and adding the sand (or new sand) back slowly. I would be partial to new sand - but I can be a bit anal retentive.
reefcrystals is a good mix, use it also. for a large water change where the alkalinity is currently near 7 this will swing the tank. I caused the same spike when I rebuilt my system and effectively did a 50% water change in the process. in hind sight I would have used a lower alkalinity mix or reduced the alkalinity of the reefcrystals before doing it.
going with the less stress on the corals the better philosophy.
block head
New member
Nanos are tough. You just dont see tanks that have been up for years without resets. They arent big tanks. Keep them simple and you'll minimize issues. Try and hang a bunch of poop of the back and it gets silly. Sand , salt, a nice rock or two shouldn't cost much. Swings and instability are the rule. I ve spent way to much time money energy chasing the ghost. My 28 reset will embrace nanos simplicity. Fresh clean rock, forgiving coral, and a appropriate bioload.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
this is why I posted Reef Crystals is ok to use for the water changes
I would do large water changes with a good salt mix. This aquarium is home to "forgiving" corals. A skimmer would lessen the need for water changes and allow for a larger/heavier bioload.
organics CAN increase nuisance alga growth but please don't blame it on Reef Crystals. As for dosing.... dosing what? Calcium, alkalinity and Mg additions aren't going to cause cyno blooms. No other "dosings" are needed.
I would do large water changes with a good salt mix. This aquarium is home to "forgiving" corals. A skimmer would lessen the need for water changes and allow for a larger/heavier bioload.
Last edited:
I never knew cyano produced toxins,
Lots of them. They cause animal death and can harm and kill humans too. Google up cyanotoxin for more info.
Here are just a few:
Microsystins; inhibit protein
Nodularin;inhibits protein phosphate
anatoxins;neurotoxic
saxitoxins;block sodium channels in nerve cells;a cause of paralytic shellfish poisoning
cylindropermopsin; affects the liver
lyngbyatatoxin a ; inflamatory ;promotes tumor growth
Aplysiatoxins ; skin irritant ;tumor pomoter.
Many opportunistic species produce toxins to gain territory. Many algaes do as well.
Don't drink the water.
Lots of them. They cause animal death and can harm and kill humans too. Google up cyanotoxin for more info.
Here are just a few:
Microsystins; inhibit protein
Nodularin;inhibits protein phosphate
anatoxins;neurotoxic
saxitoxins;block sodium channels in nerve cells;a cause of paralytic shellfish poisoning
cylindropermopsin; affects the liver
lyngbyatatoxin a ; inflamatory ;promotes tumor growth
Aplysiatoxins ; skin irritant ;tumor pomoter.
Many opportunistic species produce toxins to gain territory. Many algaes do as well.
Don't drink the water.
A few thoughts:
PO4 may test low but with all that cyano gobling it up there may still be alot in the tank.
Substrate and rock exposed to high levels of inorganic phospahte will leach it back for quite some time. I'd personally ditch most of the sand on a restart. Might recure the rock too .
Large water changes can shock a system( ammonia, metals ,alk imbalance,etc). Aging newly mixed water in an aerated bin for a day or so can help.
If not doing a take down, I'd probably do 7 or 8 15% changes over a two week course.
reef crystals uses "organics" in their salt mix. From my reading and experience with dosing, organics can increase cyano.
consider switching to instant ocean.
Many salt mixes add organics . It helps insure free metals have ligands to bind with thus reducing their toxicity. Very small amounts of free metals like copper can be lethal to a reef tank, less so for a fish only tank. I've used Coralife which has the same or similar organic additives for over 8 years . All in all. I personally think the organics in the salt mix are a plus and certainly don't do any harm.
Cyano may take advantage of excess organic carbon or bacterial byproducts from certain types of carbon dosing but will do just fine without organics since they don' need the organic carbon.. There are thousands of species of cyanobacteria; the large majority of them are photosyntetic( autotrophic) ; they make their own organics from water/CO2 light energy;so, they don't need organics in the water to thrive.Other organisms do need them.
Many species of cyano can fix nitrogen( ie break the N2( niotrogen gas ) bond allowing the N to use it's charges to bind with H giving biologically useful nitrogen. So, while cyano will opportunisticly use ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, many species can do fine without any.
They can't make inorganic phosaphte and need it. Thus , focus on reducing inorganic phosphate is a key,ime.
PO4 may test low but with all that cyano gobling it up there may still be alot in the tank.
Substrate and rock exposed to high levels of inorganic phospahte will leach it back for quite some time. I'd personally ditch most of the sand on a restart. Might recure the rock too .
Large water changes can shock a system( ammonia, metals ,alk imbalance,etc). Aging newly mixed water in an aerated bin for a day or so can help.
If not doing a take down, I'd probably do 7 or 8 15% changes over a two week course.
reef crystals uses "organics" in their salt mix. From my reading and experience with dosing, organics can increase cyano.
consider switching to instant ocean.
Many salt mixes add organics . It helps insure free metals have ligands to bind with thus reducing their toxicity. Very small amounts of free metals like copper can be lethal to a reef tank, less so for a fish only tank. I've used Coralife which has the same or similar organic additives for over 8 years . All in all. I personally think the organics in the salt mix are a plus and certainly don't do any harm.
Cyano may take advantage of excess organic carbon or bacterial byproducts from certain types of carbon dosing but will do just fine without organics since they don' need the organic carbon.. There are thousands of species of cyanobacteria; the large majority of them are photosyntetic( autotrophic) ; they make their own organics from water/CO2 light energy;so, they don't need organics in the water to thrive.Other organisms do need them.
Many species of cyano can fix nitrogen( ie break the N2( niotrogen gas ) bond allowing the N to use it's charges to bind with H giving biologically useful nitrogen. So, while cyano will opportunisticly use ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, many species can do fine without any.
They can't make inorganic phosaphte and need it. Thus , focus on reducing inorganic phosphate is a key,ime.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
Tom spelled it out in great detail!
Long story short: don't blame Reef Crystals for cyanobacteria.
Long story short: don't blame Reef Crystals for cyanobacteria.
SkiFletch
New member
I'm just going to disagree on one thing here. Especially now with the livestock gone, 100% water changes are IMO the way to do it. I've been doing large volume water changes on my system for years now with no ill effects. You get more removal of whatever toxins/nutrients/etc that you don't want with a single large water change than you do with a series of small ones. Hell it's faster too, and I've never seen my livestock suffer from doing it. When I do my water changes the corals are out of the water even. They seem just fine with it
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
gotta agree with that
gotta agree with that
I used to expose Acros doing large volume water changes with Reef Crystals and things were GREAT. I think Tom @ TRS does the same thing on his 180 gallon SPS display. So I don't think we disagree, ski.
One key though is water prep: if you're not mixing up large volume water changes properly it could do some damage. Better to check and re-check everything during a 100% change!
gotta agree with that
I used to expose Acros doing large volume water changes with Reef Crystals and things were GREAT. I think Tom @ TRS does the same thing on his 180 gallon SPS display. So I don't think we disagree, ski.
One key though is water prep: if you're not mixing up large volume water changes properly it could do some damage. Better to check and re-check everything during a 100% change!
block head
New member
Salt is mined from the earth. Its not like little elfs crank it out of tiny labs " mfg" can say whatever they want. Sure ,some,may be tweaked here and there. Some may be waste from freshwater production. Its dug out with heavy equipment. Nobody can truly say what's going to end up in your bucket. Look at table salt for human consumption.
Jstn
Member
Thanks guys everyone has been really helpful. We are still working on trying to save this one, the coral in my home tank are looking better. The only last thing we are stuck on is the water.
As mentioned before do you think my lab water @ tds=0-1 is safe? I know the meters can only register ionic compounds but is it possible that some non detected organic is leaching in to the water source? I use the same water (same lab different tap) at home and haven't seen a problem other than some bubble algae, albeit i have more flow, volume and a skimmer too. A BRS stage 5 coming in the mail tomorrow (home), perhaps its best to wait for that?
As mentioned before do you think my lab water @ tds=0-1 is safe? I know the meters can only register ionic compounds but is it possible that some non detected organic is leaching in to the water source? I use the same water (same lab different tap) at home and haven't seen a problem other than some bubble algae, albeit i have more flow, volume and a skimmer too. A BRS stage 5 coming in the mail tomorrow (home), perhaps its best to wait for that?
SkiFletch
New member
true
SkiFletch
New member
Justin, for a little over a year I used DI water from UB with success. Got sick of lugging buckets and got myself my own RO/DI unit. These lab-supplies are just like what any of us have in our basements. Banks of RO membranes plumbed together to a resevoir with booster pump. All the lines are ran with PVC. There's nothing wrong with using the water you're using. The TDS meter proves that 
. Your problems are not your RO source
. Your problems are not your RO source
