Help with a tank going down hill
- Thread starter Jstn
- Start date
The difference in nutrient export between 5 20% changes and one 100% change is about 71% efficiency for the 5 changes , ie about 71% of the old water will be removed with 5 20% changes as opposed to 1 100% change. The nutrient removal totals will be higher than the 71% as more nutrients will be added to the tank over the time elapsed during multiple changes.
Nobody can truly say what's going to end up in your bucket.
I agree that salt mixes are harsh and unpredictable particulary for trace elements,ammonia, amines and especially free metals . This is one reason organics are added to some salt mixes to bind impurities and alleviate toxicity but those organics take sometime to bind them. . All salt will bring in metals higher than nsw values accoridngto several studies . Most tanks have high metal content. Fortunately , 99% of the metals in our tanks are bound to organics which makes them bioavalibe and reduces toxicity as organically bound metals don't pass trough cell membranes very well.
Personally. I would not do large water changes except in an emergency and then I would age the new water with aeration for a mix containing organics as much as possible.
Water changes put a dent in nutrients but are not very good at managing them without getting at he underlying imbalance between import and export. There are better ways to manage nutrients even in high biolaod systems without shocking the system via large water changes,imo.
Water changes are important to help alk,calcium and mag as well as to replenish minor and trace elements and to reset elememtal ratios like sulfate and chloride. Regular replensihment with small changes clearly sustains higher stability in the overall water chemsitry which is a good thing for the animals, imo. It also cuts the risk of toxing a sytem ,errors in mixing or otherwise doing harm with larger voume changes.
Nobody can truly say what's going to end up in your bucket.
I agree that salt mixes are harsh and unpredictable particulary for trace elements,ammonia, amines and especially free metals . This is one reason organics are added to some salt mixes to bind impurities and alleviate toxicity but those organics take sometime to bind them. . All salt will bring in metals higher than nsw values accoridngto several studies . Most tanks have high metal content. Fortunately , 99% of the metals in our tanks are bound to organics which makes them bioavalibe and reduces toxicity as organically bound metals don't pass trough cell membranes very well.
Personally. I would not do large water changes except in an emergency and then I would age the new water with aeration for a mix containing organics as much as possible.
Water changes put a dent in nutrients but are not very good at managing them without getting at he underlying imbalance between import and export. There are better ways to manage nutrients even in high biolaod systems without shocking the system via large water changes,imo.
Water changes are important to help alk,calcium and mag as well as to replenish minor and trace elements and to reset elememtal ratios like sulfate and chloride. Regular replensihment with small changes clearly sustains higher stability in the overall water chemsitry which is a good thing for the animals, imo. It also cuts the risk of toxing a sytem ,errors in mixing or otherwise doing harm with larger voume changes.
jcw
Active member
never really blamed reef crystal for cyano. just suggested that if the problem exists, in addition to all the good recommendations provided above, why not increase your chances for success and use a salt without organics?
sure, a tank that doesn't have a problem with cyano most likely won't develop a problem with reef crystals. I use reef crystals and red sea pro.
When I mentioned dosing, I should have been more specific. I have experienced a tank that was dosed vitamins undergo a cyano bloom. Took about a month after stopping to return to normal.
Again, not blaming the salt mix. Just trying to help solve the problem. If I am incorrect, I apologize.
sure, a tank that doesn't have a problem with cyano most likely won't develop a problem with reef crystals. I use reef crystals and red sea pro.
When I mentioned dosing, I should have been more specific. I have experienced a tank that was dosed vitamins undergo a cyano bloom. Took about a month after stopping to return to normal.
Again, not blaming the salt mix. Just trying to help solve the problem. If I am incorrect, I apologize.
Jstn
Member
Luckily we have a scenario where a 100% change can work. The tank was emptied and cleaned and refilled with di water, salt is now mixing. Once the SG is reached we will allow it to mix overnight, then in the morning add the sand (which we washed out with old tank water) followed by live rock. After rescaping the plan is allow the tank to sit a few days, then add the snails, followed by clown fish and in a week or two add some coral. Also we are searching for a HOB skimmer for an extra help. I wonder since it has a "tight" lid and not a ton of flow if oxygenation comes into play.
It seems that allowing salt water to mix for an extended amount of time is very important.
I wonder since it has a "tight" lid and not a ton of flow if oxygenation comes into play.
Maybe ,particularly without a skimmer. The corals should produce some oxygen from photosynthesis though.
Another issue may be CO2 levels in tank water building up absent surface agitation and adequate surface water exposure to the air. Low ph would indicate high CO2 in the water. If the ph is low more exposure to the room air via open water and surface agitation or a skimmer can help provided the room air isn't higher in CO2than the tank water as is often the case in closed areas where lot's of breathing folks are around.
Maybe ,particularly without a skimmer. The corals should produce some oxygen from photosynthesis though.
Another issue may be CO2 levels in tank water building up absent surface agitation and adequate surface water exposure to the air. Low ph would indicate high CO2 in the water. If the ph is low more exposure to the room air via open water and surface agitation or a skimmer can help provided the room air isn't higher in CO2than the tank water as is often the case in closed areas where lot's of breathing folks are around.
SkiFletch
New member
Well, he's in a University lab Tom which typically has good ventilation and few people/sq feet. We never have indoor CO2 problems in our lab and we measure them all the time. I've never seen it above 0.07 even in the dead of winter. I'd be more inclined to believe his tank has high CO2 and low O2 though as a result of poor ventilation, a problem solved via a small fan and/or skimmer, or hell, just taking the top off for a while now that the corals are gone
