High Alkalinity - Is that the Secret to More Colorful SPS?

[jackson6745]

What is the difference between low nutrient and high nutrient systems.

I hear these terms a lot but nobody ever explains what the difference is?

This is subjective for the most part. I use a combination of no3 + po4 readings, visual appearance of reef and corals, algae growth on glass, and the over stocking and feeding regimen.

Here's a old tank of mine that was ULN. No3 and po4 usually undetectable. Just a few fish, light feedings daily or every other day, clean glass every 4-5 days. Kept alk 8dkh here mostly


Here's my current reef. Lost count how many fish (over 20). No3 usually 15-25pp po4 .03-.06, and I feed enough to sustain a small dog In the past I would have had a heart attack maintaining a reef with such parameters, but this is working better. Alk is usually 9.5-10.5 Dkh

IMG_2646 by rich.colombo, on Flickr

http://youtu.be/xrAdpPDKt7I?list=UUhMQtkcK_YQuWgCqG41ncXA

Keep in mind this is two extreme opposites.

Hey Jackson silly question but what kit are you using to measure nitrates with?

Salifert

For sure..

But how you cannot keep no3 under 2/3 which is is the target of a good tank for sps?? Too many fish?? I only ask.. Hear that someone have 20 or 30 of nitrate and good colorations and grown appear strange.. I must add no3 to keep level detectable

Either have a lot of fish, back off on skimming/filtration, and use GFO to keep po4 in check. I do not like having high po4 along with high no3 in my reef. Growth really slows down, and colors get too deep if both are high.

 

[swk]

I don't think I personally know anyone who keeps their alk that high.

What are your nutrient levels? on what test kits?

Alk is a VERY important piece of the puzzle, but not the ONLY factor. Stability is much more important. AND, if your nutrient levels are very low, an alk of 10+ could cause more damage than you think

 

[Peter Eichler]

My color is slightly better when my alkalinity is low, I've seen it time and time again. Perhaps your salinity is a little low? That's another thing I feel hurts sps color...

 

[that Fish Guy]

I just tested my Aquarium since some people were asking for the Parameters.

Temperature - 78
Salinity - 1.025
PH - 8.1
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Alkalinity - 7.9
Calcium - 445
Magnesium - 1455
Phosphate - 0.32

The Aquarium is a Standard 55 Gallon.

Lighting - My Main Lights are a 4 Bulb T5-HO Fixture with ATI Bulbs (2 Blue Plus and 2 Coral Plus) I change the Bulbs every 6 Months.

Flow - Two Hydor Koralia 1500's

I do a weekly 15 Percent Water Change with Reef Crystals and RO Water.

I Dose AcroPower twice a week.

I have been dosing Reef Roids and Reef Chili for 6 Weeks Now too (Twice a Week).

 

[Peter Eichler]

What type of fixture/reflectors are you using?

 

[swk]

Is that po4 number a typo?

 

[ZON]

This is subjective for the most part. I use a combination of no3 + po4 readings, visual appearance of reef and corals, algae growth on glass, and the over stocking and feeding regimen.

Here's a old tank of mine that was ULN. No3 and po4 usually undetectable. Just a few fish, light feedings daily or every other day, clean glass every 4-5 days. Kept alk 8dkh here mostly


Here's my current reef. Lost count how many fish (over 20). No3 usually 15-25pp po4 .03-.06, and I feed enough to sustain a small dog In the past I would have had a heart attack maintaining a reef with such parameters, but this is working better. Alk is usually 9.5-10.5 Dkh

IMG_2646 by rich.colombo, on Flickr

http://youtu.be/xrAdpPDKt7I?list=UUhMQtkcK_YQuWgCqG41ncXA

Keep in mind this is two extreme opposites.





Salifert



Either have a lot of fish, back off on skimming/filtration, and use GFO to keep po4 in check. I do not like having high po4 along with high no3 in my reef. Growth really slows down, and colors get too deep if both are high.

I think that if a tank need resins GFO or some other kind of media to keep level under normal value ..there are something wrong...but is a "euro" thinking..here we try to not use ...many tank are ULNS many not..

 

[that Fish Guy]

What type of fixture/reflectors are you using?

Marineland (It is discontinued)

 

[that Fish Guy]

Is that po4 number a typo?

No

 

[Mark426]

Is that po4 number a typo?

No

Think you may want to shoot for 0.030

 

[JPMagyar]

I just tested my Aquarium since some people were asking for the Parameters.

Temperature - 78
Salinity - 1.025
PH - 8.1
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Alkalinity - 7.9
Calcium - 445
Magnesium - 1455
Phosphate - 0.32

The Aquarium is a Standard 55 Gallon.

Lighting - My Main Lights are a 4 Bulb T5-HO Fixture with ATI Bulbs (2 Blue Plus and 2 Coral Plus) I change the Bulbs every 6 Months.

Flow - Two Hydor Koralia 1500's

I do a weekly 15 Percent Water Change with Reef Crystals and RO Water.

I Dose AcroPower twice a week.

I have been dosing Reef Roids and Reef Chili for 6 Weeks Now too (Twice a Week).

This reef belongs to Krzysztof and the picture is from 2010. Notice the parameters he lists. Here also are some comments he made about his phosphate regimen:

. . . it depends on how many animals there are in a tank, how much you feed them and how old your tank is. Earlier, when corals were bigger, I had to use PO4x4 phosphate remover with 2 liters of biopellets. I check ca, alkalinity and PO4 quite often. If PO4 rise I'll add a filter with PO4x4 phosphate remover (it's the most effective adsorber in my opinion).

Krzysztof

Specific gravity: 35 ppt
pH: 7.7 - 8.1
Calcium: 430 ppm
Alkalinity: 8 dKH
Magnesium: 1380 ppm
Temperature: 25 - 26 ° C (26 - 28 ° C in the summer)
Nitrate: undetectable
Phosphate: 0.01 ppm

I have few thoughts. First is that if you look over past TOTMs I believe you will see that many if not most try to keep alkalinity at or near NSW levels between 7 and 8 dKh. That's where I keep my tank. Second, acropora or more accurately symbiodinium (zooxanthellea) are sensitive to phosphate levels and anything over 3 ppm will have a negative impact on coloration and coral health (My guess is your .32 reading is equal to 32 ). This doesn't mean there aren't many tanks running just fine with elevated phosphate; it just means those tanks are not typically the ones with ultra colorful acroporas. Third, nitrate on a reef is less than 1 ppm, but most test kits do not go this low and will give you a reading of "zero" but it's not really zero it's just less than the kit's level of accuracy. What kit are you using to test nitrate and what is it's lowest reading level in ppm? Fourth, and finally, I feel that 4 T5s is most likely at the lower limit of PAR necessary for colorful acropora. My daughter keeps a 38 gallon Nuvo with super colorful coral but it has 6 T5s over that tank and it just barely gets enough PAR in the top most regions of the tank to keep acropora successfully.

Summary:

1) Alkalinity of 7-8 is all thats needed.
2) Zero nitrate is not usually really zero.
3) Phosphate is REALLY difficult to keep low.
4) Many colorful acropora demand REALLY high PAR levels.



P.S. 1.025 is Specific Gravity and is NOT what NSW has. NSW is 35 ppt and is equivalent to 1.0264, but only if you have an accurate refractometer such as a VeeGee. Most refractometers sold to our hobby are actually not true seawater refracts but actually brine water refracts.

 

[ZON]

i agree JPmagyar..

i notice that there in USA you use less light for sps instead here in europe we do...

i see 200 gallos tanks with 6 t5 or 150W MH.. here on a 100 gallon minimum is 8 tubes or 2x250W MH + 4 tubes.. for example.

 

[that Fish Guy]

This reef belongs to Krzysztof and the picture is from 2010. Notice the parameters he lists. Here also are some comments he made about his phosphate regimen:

I have few thoughts. First is that if you look over past TOTMs I believe you will see that many if not most try to keep alkalinity at or near NSW levels between 7 and 8 dKh. That's where I keep my tank. Second, acropora or more accurately symbiodinium (zooxanthellea) are sensitive to phosphate levels and anything over 3 ppm will have a negative impact on coloration and coral health (My guess is your .32 reading is equal to 32 ). This doesn't mean there aren't many tanks running just fine with elevated phosphate; it just means those tanks are not typically the ones with ultra colorful acroporas. Third, nitrate on a reef is less than 1 ppm, but most test kits do not go this low and will give you a reading of "zero" but it's not really zero it's just less than the kit's level of accuracy. What kit are you using to test nitrate and what is it's lowest reading level in ppm? Fourth, and finally, I feel that 4 T5s is most likely at the lower limit of PAR necessary for colorful acropora. My daughter keeps a 38 gallon Nuvo with super colorful coral but it has 6 T5s over that tank and it just barely gets enough PAR in the top most regions of the tank to keep acropora successfully.

Summary:

1) Alkalinity of 7-8 is all thats needed.
2) Zero nitrate is not usually really zero.
3) Phosphate is REALLY difficult to keep low.
4) Many colorful acropora demand REALLY high PAR levels.



P.S. 1.025 is Specific Gravity and is NOT what NSW has. NSW is 35 ppt and is equivalent to 1.0264, but only if you have an accurate refractometer such as a VeeGee. Most refractometers sold to our hobby are actually not true seawater refracts but actually brine water refracts.

Is this the type of phosphate filter he is talking about?

http://www.marinedepot.com/PURA_Fil...edia-Magnavore_(PURA)-MN3311-FIFMMEPM-vi.html

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=28057

 

[that Fish Guy]

This reef belongs to Krzysztof and the picture is from 2010. Notice the parameters he lists. Here also are some comments he made about his phosphate regimen:

I have few thoughts. First is that if you look over past TOTMs I believe you will see that many if not most try to keep alkalinity at or near NSW levels between 7 and 8 dKh. That's where I keep my tank. Second, acropora or more accurately symbiodinium (zooxanthellea) are sensitive to phosphate levels and anything over 3 ppm will have a negative impact on coloration and coral health (My guess is your .32 reading is equal to 32 ). This doesn't mean there aren't many tanks running just fine with elevated phosphate; it just means those tanks are not typically the ones with ultra colorful acroporas. Third, nitrate on a reef is less than 1 ppm, but most test kits do not go this low and will give you a reading of "zero" but it's not really zero it's just less than the kit's level of accuracy. What kit are you using to test nitrate and what is it's lowest reading level in ppm? Fourth, and finally, I feel that 4 T5s is most likely at the lower limit of PAR necessary for colorful acropora. My daughter keeps a 38 gallon Nuvo with super colorful coral but it has 6 T5s over that tank and it just barely gets enough PAR in the top most regions of the tank to keep acropora successfully.

Summary:

1) Alkalinity of 7-8 is all thats needed.
2) Zero nitrate is not usually really zero.
3) Phosphate is REALLY difficult to keep low.
4) Many colorful acropora demand REALLY high PAR levels.



P.S. 1.025 is Specific Gravity and is NOT what NSW has. NSW is 35 ppt and is equivalent to 1.0264, but only if you have an accurate refractometer such as a VeeGee. Most refractometers sold to our hobby are actually not true seawater refracts but actually brine water refracts.

How do you know what refractometers are good to use (I thought they all were the same - They all look the same - as if they are all made in the same factory and just given a different label depending on the brand)?

You say 32 is why I have poor color. Please explain why my Acros looked good when my Phosphate was at 1.17 (Almost 3 times as high) then?

Also, my Alkalinity was super high back then because I did 2 water changes a week - one of which was a 70 percent water change - and my SPS had great color back them with high phosphate and high alkalinity.

Yes, I have 4 Bulbs (Not 6 like you recommend) but my tank is only 12 inches front to back. My LFS has 4 bulbs on one SPS tank and only 2 Bulbs on two other SPS tanks and their tanks are 18 inches front to back so they are getting less light than me and have much better colors.

 

[Reefvet]

I'll get a new Acro and it will look awesome. But then by day 3 or 4 it starts to "Fade" and Loose Color. This always happens like clockwork.

What kind of lighting are these frags coming from ?

Your water parameters look fine. The last thing I'd do is raise alkalinity to a specific value just because you've heard that from other reef keepers. They don't have your tank and all the variables that come with it.

A 55 is an old school freshwater tank that is pretty deep for just 4 T5s. I'd suspect your light level first.

How far are your corals from the light ?

 

[Reefvet]

Second, acropora or more accurately symbiodinium (zooxanthellea) are sensitive to phosphate levels and anything over 3 ppm will have a negative impact on coloration and coral health

While this is common thinking it's not fact. I run much higher phosphates than the OP and have no problem growing any acro.

For balance on the low phosphate school of thought you should read this thread.

P.S. 1.025 is Specific Gravity and is NOT what NSW has. NSW is 35 ppt and is equivalent to 1.0264, but only if you have an accurate refractometer such as a VeeGee. Most refractometers sold to our hobby are actually not true seawater refracts but actually brine water refracts.

I'd say it's safe to assume that since the OP has good growth salinity is fine. Acros are highly adaptable in this respect and there is no reason to suspect this parameter as limiting color.

 

[ViktorVaughn]

I'd definitely suspect the high phosphate levels first. When my acros were looking awful, po4 was around .30 ppm. I added a GFO reactor and got the phosphates undetectable. After they got used to the shock of the swing in phosphate levels, everything colored up nicely.

 

[cugly]

This is subjective for the most part. I use a combination of no3 + po4 readings, visual appearance of reef and corals, algae growth on glass, and the over stocking and feeding regimen.

Here's a old tank of mine that was ULN. No3 and po4 usually undetectable. Just a few fish, light feedings daily or every other day, clean glass every 4-5 days. Kept alk 8dkh here mostly


Here's my current reef. Lost count how many fish (over 20). No3 usually 15-25pp po4 .03-.06, and I feed enough to sustain a small dog In the past I would have had a heart attack maintaining a reef with such parameters, but this is working better. Alk is usually 9.5-10.5 Dkh

IMG_2646 by rich.colombo, on Flickr

http://youtu.be/xrAdpPDKt7I?list=UUhMQtkcK_YQuWgCqG41ncXA

Keep in mind this is two extreme opposites.





Salifert



Either have a lot of fish, back off on skimming/filtration, and use GFO to keep po4 in check. I do not like having high po4 along with high no3 in my reef. Growth really slows down, and colors get too deep if both are high.

Richard hows the color of that rainbow tenius now that your tank is not running low nutrient is the color just deeper or it lost some of the colors..?

 

[that Fish Guy]

What kind of lighting are these frags coming from ?

Your water parameters look fine. The last thing I'd do is raise alkalinity to a specific value just because you've heard that from other reef keepers. They don't have your tank and all the variables that come with it.

A 55 is an old school freshwater tank that is pretty deep for just 4 T5s. I'd suspect your light level first.

How far are your corals from the light ?

Like 6 Inches under the Light so they get a lot of PAR.

 

[that Fish Guy]

I'd definitely suspect the high phosphate levels first. When my acros were looking awful, po4 was around .30 ppm. I added a GFO reactor and got the phosphates undetectable. After they got used to the shock of the swing in phosphate levels, everything colored up nicely.

That is what everyone says but the strange thing is that my SPS had nice color when my Phosphate was almost 3 Times what it currently is (1.17).

Also, when it was 1.17 I started to use GFO because everyone said so.

Well I got the Phosphate Low and the SPS looked like Crap.

So even though everyone says the exact opposite my SPS looked better when I had really high phosphate and alkalinity.

Why is that?

It goes against everything everyone has ever told me about SPS.