High Nitrates looking after dads tank

[Jamesjugs]

Hi guys,

I started keeping marine fish last year and have a 100L at home; all fish ok nitrates nirtrate and ammonia are 0.

Earlier this year I now have a 450L at my parents to look after; I've got a QT upstairs that Also is fine and used to rescue a few fish from the 450L after the crash.

Basically the 450L was out of Tetra Balance balls which I think caused a Nitrate increase and PH drop resulting in the death of the powder blue tang and large domino.

Now all parameters are: S.G. 1.22 PH 8.1 Nirite 0 Anmonia 0 Nirate Deep purple or 100-200 I'd guess. I've already done two 30% water changes.
The setup is as follows:
Ehiem 600 into 350; the 600 has sponges and 500ml Continiuum BAC; the 350 has about 250 balance balls and some sponges.
Ehiem 350 with Continiuum Nitriyx and Phosphate flow rate 200-250 L/H ( I measured this by timing how long to fill 500ml bottle.
Ehiem 2 professional no idea what's in there
Ehiem 3 Professional setup as per the box
Ehiem 4+ Professional setup as per the box

Internal 240 Bioflow
Aqua ball
2 UV filters
Circulation pump 3800LPH
Two power heads with sponges to aim surface with polyfilter inserted into media 1200 LPH

I've cleaned the professional 4 3 and classics except the one with the bio balls leftovers to seed the new balls over the last 4 months in stages. Some were very dirty.

Now the balance balls and new media from continuuum has been in two weeks; how long is this gonna take to start processing the problem? Currently there's a trigger and two humbugs in there being fed carefully.

My dad never used to do water changes and the system was always balanced, so you think it was the lack of the tetra balance balls that caused this? Should I buy a protein skimmer? My issue is that it would have to be a hang on and would look unsightly and is expensive; is there anyone out there that can help with this as it's really frustrating not to understand the system or how to re correct it.

Sorry for the long message but thought the extra info can help paint a picture of the setup.

 

[mcgyvr]

I'm sorry.. Did you just say you have 5.. no 6..no 7 mechanical filters on a 110G (450L) tank?

 

[hkgar]

And a SG of 1.22?

What is the Phosphate?

Any live rock in that 450L? Type of bottom?

 

[mcgyvr]

100-200+ppm of nitrate is most certainly not going to go away overnight and I can only assume (I hope) that they must have all these filters filled with biomedia like the Continum stuff,etc...
Mechanical filtration like filters/floss,etc.. unless cleaned very often (every couple days) just collects crap and then it decomposes into something the filters don't do anything to remove hence rendering them basically useless and just a money pit..
Thats why most don't recommend any mechanical filtration in an aquarium.
Once you have nitrate no amount of filter floss is going to remove it..

Its the bacterial in the tank (on the surfaces) that does the most of the work. Provide sufficient surface area (porous rock in the tank/sand,etc...) and you can establish a huge bacterial population to where the tank can easily process any ammonia all the way down to nitrogen gas where it escapes the tank on its own..

If the tank doesn't have much rock in it or very dense/heavy rock then you certainly need things like that Nitrix to provide that missing surface area for the bacteria..

At this point though you need to kind of be careful doing too much at one time.. The filters WILL have bacteria living on them and if you don't have much rock,etc... then you could just be removing much of the bacteria you need..

IMO expect a 2+ month process of cleaning up/removing some equipment at a time and keep doing water changes,etc...
Carbon dosing products like the Tetra balls can take 4+ weeks before they even start to show results..
Diligent maintenance is going to be whats needed to make up for a lack of it..

 

[Jamesjugs]

Thanks

Thanks

Thanks so much guys for the quick response it's nice to have some expert advice on the situation.

Basically I have a majestic angel about 8inches in the 125L QT that I had to move up to save it and wanted to get it back into the main tank as not to stress it out but I'm afraid those levels may kill it hence have left it.

Yes the tank has 5 external and 2 internals.
The sand bed is coral sand...
There is live rock in the tank not loads though...the nitriyx Bac and Phos are all new from continuum to increase the processing; ideally I want to return it to process the nitrate via the balance balls in the higher flow 350 and the new media in the 200/250lh flow continuum.

Is that flow rate slow enough?
I'm planning on water changes to keep things in check until the bacteria gets up to the bio load; should I vacuum the sand gently?
Would a protein skimmer be a good idea? For example a Deltec 300 to assist in removal of DOCs?

If this was your tank what plan would you put in place? Also is this common?

 

[sde1500]

Lol, no this is certainly not common. I'd start adding live rock, which is way more useful than filters, and slowly decommissioning the plethora of unnecessary mechanical filters. Seriously, go with what works, live rock. Don't buy the pointless substitutes that don't do as good of a job.

A protein skimmer wouldn't hurt, having seen a HOB one on my Bro in laws tank, it doesn't look that unsightly. It would do better than all those filters. I'd probably add a few power heads too, just to keep the flow up as you remove all those things. Protein skimmer would also allow for carbon dosing vinegar, which would help lower nitrates.

 

[mcgyvr]

I think 2 more filters should do it

 

[hkgar]

Might need a bigger tank to make use of all the filters.

 

[Jamesjugs]

Hi guys,

Just to update you on what's going on.
Deltec MCE 400 running for a few weeks on wet skim while dosing Nopox,
Added a load of terra balance balls to the ehiem professional 3. There's about 300/400 in the filters now.

Started to remove the rocks and clean them in tank water; I've also been vacuuming the sand where it's only a few cm deep which is most of the front; I've also siphoned off the top layer of sand.

This was absolutely filthy. The nitrates are still the same. I think the biological guys are processing it but it's just leaching out back into the water column.

I also added in two pouches of fluval clearmax into the ehiem pro 4.
It's not getting worse and the skimmer is doing a about 200ml a day.

I guess it's just a matter of time now to bring it back? Any thoughts guys!

 

[Uncle99]

NoPox is good way to start to lower nutrient levels, as well as a weekly water change regime with 0 TDS RODI water, you just need to keep the maintenance up and continuously provide stable water, on-point in the 8 major parameters.

NoPox will help build your bacteria count which over time will consume nutrients then be pulled out by the skimmer. There will come a point whereas Nitrates lower to your target as the bacteria pop is enough to keep it low.

Just keep the changes small and infrequent with the NoPox. If you need to increase/decrease, do it slow like 1-2 ml change per week or so.

Keep testing nitrates and phosphates at least weekly so that you can see if the decrease stops, if it does, you can add another ml to your daily dose amount.

Not sure what you keep but a nitrate level of 2-5ppm matched with a phosphate level of 0.50 - 0.1 has worked well for me forever...

Fish only are more forgiving as to nitrate, they can tolerate higher levels, but keeping nutrients low go a long way in lowering maintenance.

 

[Jamesjugs]

I used the Red Sea test kit and for
Nitrate it's deep pink/purple...which is pretty high I'd say 150+.
The NOPOX has been running a week now so hopefully it should soon start to make a dent...I did have to reduce the dose as trigger looked a bit short of breath on first doseing...
The fluval clearmax is in too but that doesn't seem to be pulling it down much either...has anyone had any experiences of this before? And if clearmax is effective.

 

[Uncle99]

I see no mention of the amount of rock in this tank. The rock provides the surface area for which bacteria will live, thus bacteria is the true filter. Even with a fully cycled tank, NoPox will take months to build the necessary bacteria count which can process the nitrate into nitrogen gas which can escape the tank, thus lowering levels. IMO, carbon dosing with NoPox is virtually useless without the appropriate area for it to live.

NoPox is a daily event and you should use the same amount each day, but never beyond the manufactures guidelines. Too much NoPox, too much change in NoPox, can be quite dangerous to the bacteria.

I encourage you to ensure sufficient rock is available for your biological filter to grow. During this stage, which is likely 3-6 months, consistent sustained water changes will lower your nitrates. If you keep fish only, nitrates in the 30-50ppm is usually no problem for fish, however, a good biological filter should have no problem in keeping nitrates in the 5-10 ppm range, which overall, is better for all inhabitants and controlling algae.

 

[Shelbytwp123]

i didn't know there was a test kit that will register 200 ppm No3

 

[Fourstars]

I would lose the filters. Especially if your not sure what’s in one of them. Take them off line one at a time and test ammonia and nitrite. Live rock will have plenty of surface for biologic filtration. The way that tank is managed you will always be fighting nitrate and low PH.

 

[Jamesjugs]

There is probably about 30/40 kgs of live rock in the system; and a few areas with a DSB; the filters are all clean and the prefilter is easy to clean. There's only fish and don't have any plans to change that. Hopefully the skimmer will be helping to clear the backlog of nutrient export. I wonder if the rocks themselves were full of nitrates and are continuing to leach it?

 

[Fourstars]

Fish only, that’s a different story. I would not worry to much about it, and just do water changes, Clean filters religiously, don’t over feed. Nirates are the end product of the Nitrogen Cycle.

 

[Jamesjugs]

Just an update; So yesterday I cleaned out the last filter and ehiem professional one series; the two baskets had the ehiem substrate (jagged edges type) this was cemented together in gunk I had to use something to help break it up. As you can imagine this must have been a big source of nitrates. Do you think this substrate will leach it back out? Even after I've cleaned it all in tank water?

All the filters are now clean within 6 weeks all the internals are clean and the sandbed has been vacuumed so hopefully we are going to get some results soon!

The nitrates are probably 200ppm and I want to get a majestic angel back into the tank as it's been in the 125L for a month now. Will moving it back kill it or will it be ok? It's about 8inches long.

 

[Sk8r]

I'd delay putting it in if at all possible until nitrates are further down. Fish tolerate nitrate that would kill coral but that's been pretty high and another large fish is going to add to the problem with its waste and lost food. I'd say THE biggest help in battling nitrate longterm is a serious skimmer, and if you can get a used one of a good sort, it's capable of hammering it down fast. You can spend a lot of money on interim solutions, that add pretty close to the cost of better equipment, not to mention the time and lost fish. Running a fish-only on filters that are top notch and well-maintained is perfectly possible, but the setup is still struggling with the waste, and a good skimmer, one that produces serious thick foam, not just bubbles, would be a real benefit. Eshopps makes a good one that's not as pricey as some.