Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)
- Thread starter Wally.B
- Start date
Wally.B
Active member
Plan for winter is simple.
Just some foam, or stuffing insulation in the basement window to seal things up.
There is a magnetic contact on that window for security system (so I put a small magnet over contact swtich to bypass). Nobody gong to break in (window is under a low deck).
(someday, I may drill a hole in the window frame to make it more permanent).
BTW. (Both tanks are PH stabilitizing quite nicely)
Ph. Just over 8.0 (Way better than before 7.5 !!))
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Wally.B
Active member
Doser+ Project (Sneak Peak)
So the Aurdino Controlled Doser is almost finished.
The Doser+ preview is appropriately displayed in front the (Yet Again, Virgin, stripped down Tank). But crystal clear and Algae free for a fresh new start.
About to embark on Take 3 on SPS only.
Yup learned a lot from past two failures on this tank. Hoping this time with Algae Scrubber, and this doser, I'll have a bit more success.
I'll be posting a detailed thread on the build/features of this unit, but it's more than just a 5 pump doser. Much more!!
(Designed in all the things I've every wanted from DIY Tank Maintenance automation)
One New feature that I actually came up with a few days ago, is it integrates with the the Apex for PH Monitoring and possible Kalk PH TopUp.
Stay tuned.... Wally B.
So the Aurdino Controlled Doser is almost finished.
The Doser+ preview is appropriately displayed in front the (Yet Again, Virgin, stripped down Tank). But crystal clear and Algae free for a fresh new start.
About to embark on Take 3 on SPS only.
Yup learned a lot from past two failures on this tank. Hoping this time with Algae Scrubber, and this doser, I'll have a bit more success.
I'll be posting a detailed thread on the build/features of this unit, but it's more than just a 5 pump doser. Much more!!
(Designed in all the things I've every wanted from DIY Tank Maintenance automation)
One New feature that I actually came up with a few days ago, is it integrates with the the Apex for PH Monitoring and possible Kalk PH TopUp.
Stay tuned.... Wally B.
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Wally.B
Active member
What's is a CO2 scrubber?
Hey, I noticed on your TAG you do Kalk dosing. Doesn't that raise your PH enough.
When I was running my Kalk reactor (as a Tank Top UP) my PH was just right. 8.1-8.2.
Key was I had a lot of evaportation. I posted my results here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2467397
HOWEVER, I did have a too high Alk problem (10.9) since I was evaporating too much.
I also didn't like Kalk top up method, since it was overdose accident prone. (ie. Forgetting to turn off Top UP during a water change).
So with my up-coming Doser:
---> I'll only be adding a tiny touch of Kalk to bring up PH as needed.
---> I'll know when PH is below my threshold, since the doser will get PH from the Integrated Apex interface (A simple EB8 switch that will turn on when PH is over a threshold).
---------> and (my theory, but not programmed yet), is I'll code in an Algorithm that will trim my Alk dosing as I add Kalk to bring up PH. (if any).
---------> Of course my Alk monitoring will be manual with test kit (and maybe there will be a relation that I can figure out mathematically)
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bif24701
New member
A CO2 scrubber is just a reactor or air filter filled with a sode lime media that absorbs CO2. You connect it to your skimmers air intake. It works very well. However I'll need two because my skimmer is large and consumes large amounts of air. Right now I modified one to increase the air flow but it still restricting my skimmer.
Kalk does raise pH very well. However I'm not consuming ALK/Cal fast enough, so the amount of Kalk I add only slightly raises pH.
The best most fail proof way of using Kalk is to dose it just like two part. Instead of using an ATO system that has many points for possible failure. I use my APEX to dose a set amount every half hour with an Aqualifter pump. ThIs has many advantages. First because it spreads out the Kalk dose the PH remains much more stable. Also if my ALK is too high to low I can just adjust my APEX schedule. Finally if PH hits an threshold on my APEX it is stopped automatically. So no floats, switches, or valves to fail. If my pump fails it's likely to fail in off position or just get clogged, not so bad. I use another method for adding RO/DI too off.
I wouldn't dose ALK supplements according to pH, do to the chemistry of how it works and other chemical reactions within the reef make it impossible to do it safely. To bad really, would be really nice. I've looked into it myself.
Aaron
bif24701
New member
Also, I don't use any reactor. I think that's just more points for possible failure. I use a 32 gallon brute trash can. I fill it with RODI, add my measures Kalk and stir it up. Let it settle for an hour and that's it. There is a magnetic tube holder about 3" from the bottom to ensure it stays in place. That way I don't get any of the precipitation on the bottom or start sucking air. I do have switches to alert me if it becomes low but that's it.
Aaron
Aaron
Wally.B
Active member
Triton Test Kit Arrived (Use now? or Later) Tank must be Nutrient Starved (Need to fix with A Doser Cocktail Mix of Additives.).
So the Triton test kit arrived. Never seen one before.
So I'm think of holding off on the kit. Till things are at least ok.
Reason being, the couple of NEW coral I got as trials just faded to near death.
Everything alive is going very brown.
My suspicion is with the new Sump and Algae Scrubber, I'm really running low nutrients.
I'm feeding the fish a lot, and 3 times a day. Water is crystal clear, and no algae. BUT ALGAE is scrubber is running too well. Another Harvest was 150grams after couple of weeks. (Maybe I should reduce scrubber Photo Period to slow down Algae Growth).
Another option I'm thinking (with the Doser on the horizon), it to actually go back to feeding corals.
I picked a bottle of AquaForest Coral Food, and Vitality.
Also, since I have left over ZeoVit Phols Extra, Extra Special, Iodide, and Sponge power. A half bottle of AcroPower and Poly Booster.
Also have Reef Roids, Coral Frenzy and Reef Chilli that I feed my LPS tank.
I will make up a bottle of RO diluted Cocktail to dose (some of the above. Not all, only stuff that doesn't go bad.).
Most of this stuff with expire within a year, but still good now.
Right now I'm not dosing anything at all, not even Alk,Calc, since water changes are enough with the little bit in the tank/Frag Area.
I know this is against what I planned, but I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE, all SPS corals are all near death.
See what I can save!!
I'm ok to start from Rock Bottom and work up, if this last ditched attempt fails.
So the Triton test kit arrived. Never seen one before.
So I'm think of holding off on the kit. Till things are at least ok.
Reason being, the couple of NEW coral I got as trials just faded to near death.
Everything alive is going very brown.
My suspicion is with the new Sump and Algae Scrubber, I'm really running low nutrients.
I'm feeding the fish a lot, and 3 times a day. Water is crystal clear, and no algae. BUT ALGAE is scrubber is running too well. Another Harvest was 150grams after couple of weeks. (Maybe I should reduce scrubber Photo Period to slow down Algae Growth).
Another option I'm thinking (with the Doser on the horizon), it to actually go back to feeding corals.
I picked a bottle of AquaForest Coral Food, and Vitality.
Also, since I have left over ZeoVit Phols Extra, Extra Special, Iodide, and Sponge power. A half bottle of AcroPower and Poly Booster.
Also have Reef Roids, Coral Frenzy and Reef Chilli that I feed my LPS tank.
I will make up a bottle of RO diluted Cocktail to dose (some of the above. Not all, only stuff that doesn't go bad.).
Most of this stuff with expire within a year, but still good now.
Right now I'm not dosing anything at all, not even Alk,Calc, since water changes are enough with the little bit in the tank/Frag Area.
I know this is against what I planned, but I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE, all SPS corals are all near death.
See what I can save!!
I'm ok to start from Rock Bottom and work up, if this last ditched attempt fails.
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Wally.B
Active member
OH MY GOD!!! (Mirrors are made with Copper). I put one into my Sump Algae Scrubber (I found my problem source).
Oh my. I've been struggling with my coral health over the last while.
I thought my ballast blow out and lighting recovery burned my corals.
However I had a feeling that something else was wrong, since I did buy a couple of new tester SPS frags, and they quickly faded and fizzled out dead.
The clue was that water quality /chemistry look perfect.
I may have averted a more significant disaster since I was running fresh carbon with the new sump setup.
Today I got around to look up my suspicion. HERE IS WHAT I FOUND.
Yup. Mirrors have a layer of Silver and COPPER COATING!!
And I put a mirror into that In SUmp Algae scrubber to more effectively reflect light into the Algae scrubber box.
I quickly went and checked a scrap piece of left over mirror. Scraping the back side reveaedl a golden layer of copper.
That mirror was slowly leaching copper into my tank. Not enough to kill the invertebrate, or even the corals quickly, but slowly it was doing damage.
I FOUND MY CAUSE. Going to remove that mirror (Siliconed in well) ASAP. And run some extra Carbon to clean up the water column.
I JUST BYPASSED THE SCRUBBER SECTION COMPARMENT. The copper source is no more!!
This should fix my problem.
Damn!! but Yahoo, I think this should turn things around.
Oh my. I've been struggling with my coral health over the last while.
I thought my ballast blow out and lighting recovery burned my corals.
However I had a feeling that something else was wrong, since I did buy a couple of new tester SPS frags, and they quickly faded and fizzled out dead.
The clue was that water quality /chemistry look perfect.
I may have averted a more significant disaster since I was running fresh carbon with the new sump setup.
Today I got around to look up my suspicion. HERE IS WHAT I FOUND.
Yup. Mirrors have a layer of Silver and COPPER COATING!!
And I put a mirror into that In SUmp Algae scrubber to more effectively reflect light into the Algae scrubber box.
I quickly went and checked a scrap piece of left over mirror. Scraping the back side reveaedl a golden layer of copper.
That mirror was slowly leaching copper into my tank. Not enough to kill the invertebrate, or even the corals quickly, but slowly it was doing damage.
I FOUND MY CAUSE. Going to remove that mirror (Siliconed in well) ASAP. And run some extra Carbon to clean up the water column.
I JUST BYPASSED THE SCRUBBER SECTION COMPARMENT. The copper source is no more!!
This should fix my problem.
Damn!! but Yahoo, I think this should turn things around.
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Wally.B
Active member
And here is proof that the mirror was corroding and leaching copper.
I soaked this small left over piece of mirror in some salt water over the weekend. Just the tip.
You can see the Salt Water corroding the copper from the mirror edges. Exactly at the water line.
The mirror in the ATS was put in with lots of silicone, but I'm sure the edges were exposed to the strong flow thru it.
Glad the last stage of the Sump was running Carbon, or things could have been worse.
I soaked this small left over piece of mirror in some salt water over the weekend. Just the tip.
You can see the Salt Water corroding the copper from the mirror edges. Exactly at the water line.
The mirror in the ATS was put in with lots of silicone, but I'm sure the edges were exposed to the strong flow thru it.
Glad the last stage of the Sump was running Carbon, or things could have been worse.
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Wally.B
Active member
COPPER TEST Results
OLD test kit is still good. Reference test proves it.
So there isn't much Copper, but kit picked it up as detectable.
Any Copper isn't good
I was hoping for a Higher level result (to prove the root cause).
However the mirror may have corroded all it can at the exposed edges.
Plus the recent carbon probably helped keep Copper from accumulating.
Prior to adding Carbon it may have risen higher.
Let's see if the any improvement happens. Going to get a cheap new frag to see.
OLD test kit is still good. Reference test proves it.
So there isn't much Copper, but kit picked it up as detectable.
Any Copper isn't good
I was hoping for a Higher level result (to prove the root cause).
However the mirror may have corroded all it can at the exposed edges.
Plus the recent carbon probably helped keep Copper from accumulating.
Prior to adding Carbon it may have risen higher.
Let's see if the any improvement happens. Going to get a cheap new frag to see.
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Wally.B
Active member
Sorry for the Over-Reaction to Possible COPPER Contamination.
Hey, I have ever right to freak out on the possibility of Copper Contamination.
Many years ago, I contaminated my tank with a Very Reputable Reef Product, that got recalled a few weeks later (due to copper contamination).
I went to bed using it. Next morning I woke up to Molten Corals, all invertebrates dead, and my attempt to save a baby raised Prized Clam Failed miserably.
The horror story here is I didn't know what was causing my meltdown, so I kept using the product (Carbon) to clean up the tank.
Almost nothing survived, but that centre frogspawn did recover and today it's decendant are the main coral of my Successful Kitchen tank. The trumpet corals also are around.
In this case, there isn't much to destroy, so I'm fine, except to eliminate a possible source for the future.
Now that I'm really paying attention, I notice my coralline has degraded everywhere in the tank.
Hoping for a speedy recovery soon, so I can install that near finished dosing system, and start with nice fresh frags.
Hey, I have ever right to freak out on the possibility of Copper Contamination.
Many years ago, I contaminated my tank with a Very Reputable Reef Product, that got recalled a few weeks later (due to copper contamination).
I went to bed using it. Next morning I woke up to Molten Corals, all invertebrates dead, and my attempt to save a baby raised Prized Clam Failed miserably.
The horror story here is I didn't know what was causing my meltdown, so I kept using the product (Carbon) to clean up the tank.
Almost nothing survived, but that centre frogspawn did recover and today it's decendant are the main coral of my Successful Kitchen tank. The trumpet corals also are around.
In this case, there isn't much to destroy, so I'm fine, except to eliminate a possible source for the future.
Now that I'm really paying attention, I notice my coralline has degraded everywhere in the tank.
Hoping for a speedy recovery soon, so I can install that near finished dosing system, and start with nice fresh frags.
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Wally.B
Active member
Maybe is wasn't Copper. Maybe it was a Rapid Nutrient drop (with the Algae Scrubber going Online)
So, I'm scratching my head on what went wrong.
I haven't removed the mirror yet. I looked inside and it's very well sealed with Silicone (around the exposed edges). Tough to remove.
Plus the Copper test showed VERY LOW copper. Barely any reading on a sensitive kit.
So it is possible the Algae Scrubber drastically reduced nutrients and caused the tissue Necrosis?
The tank is running with the Scrubber bypassed. I'll wait an see if any recovery happens.
So, I'm scratching my head on what went wrong.
I haven't removed the mirror yet. I looked inside and it's very well sealed with Silicone (around the exposed edges). Tough to remove.
Plus the Copper test showed VERY LOW copper. Barely any reading on a sensitive kit.
So it is possible the Algae Scrubber drastically reduced nutrients and caused the tissue Necrosis?
The tank is running with the Scrubber bypassed. I'll wait an see if any recovery happens.
oosurfin
New member
Just read your thread top to bottom sir. Very interesting stuff. You're super determined and don't give up and I applaude you! But if I may, it seems you keep cycling the same problems with tank nutrients. Part of it is tinkering for sure. Algae issues I'd definitely agree you found your sources, old bulbs, red and green LEDs and over feeding corals coupled with a poorly working skimmer. Here is what I'm seeing right now. Copper could be an issue so definitely run lots of extra carbon.The skimmer is probably now properly sized with the sump upgrade but I'd think you may still have room to add more fish. But that algae scrubber is too much for your current bioload in my opinion. If you had 15+ fish cruising around in there I'd say go for it. I know for sure once I get my 40 breeder up I'll have 7+ fish in that and it will be sps dominated. Its always a balancing act with import/export with any system. Only way I'd bring that srubber back online is if I saw another algae outbreak. 2 thoughts, scrap the mirror/ take the scrubber offline and keep your feeding and previous care regimen. So far the best I've seen any of your skimmers working is that mud it was pulling out of that nasty yellow water you tested it on. I love to tinker and I feel your pain when that itch happens but brother you dip your hands in the tank too much so to speak. My last tank was so rock solid I did skimmer cup cleans every 5 days, glass cleaning every 4 days, every other week full water testing and once a month water changes. It was basically set it and forget it.
Wally.B
Active member
oosufin,
Yes, I agree with you that I could succeed on this SPS only tank Office Tank if I stop tinkering and went back to (Hands-off) basics.
I bet that if I simply did 10-20% water changes weekly or every other week, and added more fish, things would go well (and that is what I did at the start of this thread for 9 months [but not enough fish]).
It would be probably be much cheaper then all the things I do.
I have my main kitchen tank which I don't tinker with, and it's doing very well every since I started this tank (Simply because I've left it alone to play with this one).
It was similarly a jo-jo tank for over a decade before I started this one. So 100% my tinkering is very disruptive.
It's probably pretty clear I love building/experimenting, and this tank gives me a place to fulfill that passion.
I'll never stop tinkering/experimenting somewhere.
I have been pondering a way to stop my tinkering on this tank (it is obvious that I can't).
Start another tank to tinker with.
I have 5 GAL and 10 GAL tank sitting on shelf, and with those two I could start a mini SPS experimental system.
Start a mini tank, a mini sump, my mini DIY LED lights, with all the wires, belts and hoses I could hook up.
At such a small scale it would probably be totally unstable and keep me busy, while this tank would get a well deserved rest.
On the topic of the Copper contamination. I don't think it's the mirror, and I'm going to prove it via another Experiment (before I attempt to remove that very well siliconed and fully sealed mirror).
If that mirror is corroding and leaking Copper due to salt water exposure, then this closes system should prove it.
- Same mirror material as the one in my scrubber (left over piece)
- Small amount of water (much less than in tank), swirling in the bucket should accumulate a good copper concentration.
- There is no filtration or Carbon to remove the copper.
- I'll test it in a few days.
- If no copper appears from natural exposure, I'll scratch up the mirror backside film and leave in water for another swirl.
- At that point there has to be copper in the water (but if so little that kit barely picks it up then I could consider not removing the other mirror since I did think of possible metal leaks and really sealed it from water exposure)
Yes, I agree with you that I could succeed on this SPS only tank Office Tank if I stop tinkering and went back to (Hands-off) basics.
I bet that if I simply did 10-20% water changes weekly or every other week, and added more fish, things would go well (and that is what I did at the start of this thread for 9 months [but not enough fish]).
It would be probably be much cheaper then all the things I do.
I have my main kitchen tank which I don't tinker with, and it's doing very well every since I started this tank (Simply because I've left it alone to play with this one).
It was similarly a jo-jo tank for over a decade before I started this one. So 100% my tinkering is very disruptive.
It's probably pretty clear I love building/experimenting, and this tank gives me a place to fulfill that passion.
I'll never stop tinkering/experimenting somewhere.
I have been pondering a way to stop my tinkering on this tank (it is obvious that I can't).
Start another tank to tinker with.
I have 5 GAL and 10 GAL tank sitting on shelf, and with those two I could start a mini SPS experimental system.
Start a mini tank, a mini sump, my mini DIY LED lights, with all the wires, belts and hoses I could hook up.
At such a small scale it would probably be totally unstable and keep me busy, while this tank would get a well deserved rest.
On the topic of the Copper contamination. I don't think it's the mirror, and I'm going to prove it via another Experiment
(before I attempt to remove that very well siliconed and fully sealed mirror).
If that mirror is corroding and leaking Copper due to salt water exposure, then this closes system should prove it.
- Same mirror material as the one in my scrubber (left over piece)
- Small amount of water (much less than in tank), swirling in the bucket should accumulate a good copper concentration.
- There is no filtration or Carbon to remove the copper.
- I'll test it in a few days.
- If no copper appears from natural exposure, I'll scratch up the mirror backside film and leave in water for another swirl.
- At that point there has to be copper in the water (but if so little that kit barely picks it up then I could consider not removing the other mirror since I did think of possible metal leaks and really sealed it from water exposure)
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Wally.B
Active member
Hmmmm. Copper may show up in the Bucket Test after all. Waiting a bit longer to build up concentration.
I just found my Largest and Healthiest Zebra Hermit Crab Dead on a rock!! Nobody killed him for sure!
Just last week saw a carcass from another crab floating around the tank but thought nothing at the time.
I just found my Largest and Healthiest Zebra Hermit Crab Dead on a rock!! Nobody killed him for sure!
Just last week saw a carcass from another crab floating around the tank but thought nothing at the time.
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Wally.B
Active member
"Tinker Town" Experimental SPS Frag Tank (Initial Setup)
- Used up the last of that Black Egg Crate piece I got a couple years ago for the Frag area
- Had to add that Baffle in the Skimmer Section, since lots of micro bubbles in the small overall area.
- This is all freshly made "AquaForest Sea Salt" Water. (Not Pro-Biotic, but have Bio-S & Pro Bio-S)
Now I'm contemplating either throwing in the Dying Tank Frags to maybe save them OR go with new Frags (for a fresh start).
Not exactly sure how to do this System's Cycle this time:
- Since I won't add any Water Change water from the Possible Copper Contaminated Tank.
- And my other Tank has Nitrate=50ppm, so that may not be a good idea.
- Maybe do nothing since no fish yet (but start the process by bringing in some seeded MarinePure BioBalls, or some Live Rock from the Display Tanks)
- Used up the last of that Black Egg Crate piece I got a couple years ago for the Frag area
- Had to add that Baffle in the Skimmer Section, since lots of micro bubbles in the small overall area.
- This is all freshly made "AquaForest Sea Salt" Water. (Not Pro-Biotic, but have Bio-S & Pro Bio-S)
Now I'm contemplating either throwing in the Dying Tank Frags to maybe save them OR go with new Frags (for a fresh start).
Not exactly sure how to do this System's Cycle this time:
- Since I won't add any Water Change water from the Possible Copper Contaminated Tank.
- And my other Tank has Nitrate=50ppm, so that may not be a good idea.
- Maybe do nothing since no fish yet (but start the process by bringing in some seeded MarinePure BioBalls, or some Live Rock from the Display Tanks)
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Wally.B
Active member
Oops. The Setup was Reversed. Sump should go on bottom.
Learned quickly after a small flood (during power off test).
The black bottom and top backing improves frag area a bit.
The only issue is DB8i Skimmer really produces a lot of micro bubbles which clouds up things. Looking for ways to stop the bubbles from going into the Frag area.
All set to tinker. Decided to go with new frags to not contaminated new setup.
Learned quickly after a small flood (during power off test).
The black bottom and top backing improves frag area a bit.
The only issue is DB8i Skimmer really produces a lot of micro bubbles which clouds up things. Looking for ways to stop the bubbles from going into the Frag area.
All set to tinker. Decided to go with new frags to not contaminated new setup.
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