I did look into spirulina after my original post. It's quite good, but overall, kelp still seemed better. Spirulina has a lot more thiamin and riboflavin, but that's mostly it. It has more protein, but that's not really the point of adding seaweed in the mix. Kelp trumps it in most other categories. You can check for yourself to see what I mean.
Homemade Fish Food--Keeping It Simple w/ a Few Key Ingredients
- Thread starter wshive
- Start date
Personally, I don't add garlic. I did before, mostly because everyone always raved about it, but IME it's neither helped nor hurt. I've had fish refuse food b/c I've added garlic, and I've had fish eat food soaked in garlic so it really tells me nothing. Plus there's very little proper research supporting any of it's touted benefits. Check out this article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php
I haven't figured an exact cost per pound, but I spent about $20 on my last batch and made maybe 4 or 5 pounds of food. It's a rough estimate, but definitely much cheaper than the premade stuff I buy at $5 for 3.5oz (Ocean Nutrition). I do still feed them the premade stuff about once a week, especially angel formula for my angel. If you're looking to save money, I highly recommend an Asian supermarket. They'll have everything you could want in one place. Last time I went, frozen scallops were like $4/lb.
Glad you found this useful!:rollface:
I haven't figured an exact cost per pound, but I spent about $20 on my last batch and made maybe 4 or 5 pounds of food. It's a rough estimate, but definitely much cheaper than the premade stuff I buy at $5 for 3.5oz (Ocean Nutrition). I do still feed them the premade stuff about once a week, especially angel formula for my angel. If you're looking to save money, I highly recommend an Asian supermarket. They'll have everything you could want in one place. Last time I went, frozen scallops were like $4/lb.
Glad you found this useful!:rollface:
HBtank
Premium Member
Some quick stuff:
I think people use squid in large part becuase fish LOVE it. Ask any fisherman what one bait he would not mind being stuck with... it is an awesome attractant and may get picky fish to eat. It's not always about nutrition
otherwise we would all eat powerbars all day.. heh.
With Shrimp, the shells add a unique element that I do not have exact nutritional data on but seem to add a type of "marine fiber" and other possible minerals/nutrition beside the "meat".
I personally would include these two elements for those reasons.
Also, another factor you may want to consider is coloration. Certain foods are shown to enhance coloration beyond their nutritional value.
I think many of the other ingredients that people use are for coral, as you noted, so that they do not have to feed two things.
I think people use squid in large part becuase fish LOVE it. Ask any fisherman what one bait he would not mind being stuck with... it is an awesome attractant and may get picky fish to eat. It's not always about nutrition
otherwise we would all eat powerbars all day.. heh. With Shrimp, the shells add a unique element that I do not have exact nutritional data on but seem to add a type of "marine fiber" and other possible minerals/nutrition beside the "meat".
I personally would include these two elements for those reasons.
Also, another factor you may want to consider is coloration. Certain foods are shown to enhance coloration beyond their nutritional value.
I think many of the other ingredients that people use are for coral, as you noted, so that they do not have to feed two things.
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tattooreef
New member
i personaly care alot about the food my fish eat and how they respond to it, and i have mine simplified down to what i feel is the mix of choice for my tank, as everyones will and should be a little different for the fish and corals they keep. i use squid, crab( real not artificial), a small amount of octopus, cod, mysis, cyclopeze, and kelp. my fish love it respond well to it and have never looked better and are alot more active, i also supplement with algae strips during the day for the tangs and rabbitfish. just my two cents like i said IMO everyones should be different to an extent depending on their fish and corals.
Rekonn
Premium Member
No offense, but I think wshive is trying to get away from this method of picking what to feed our tanks inhabitants. I'm sure there are some aquarists that feel that formula one is all you need. Feeling doesn't give any basis for comparison, any method to choose one item vs another.
Would you be willing to replace the squid, crab, octopus and cod in your recipe with scallops for a while? I't would be a great way to test out wshive's theory. I'd do it myself, but my tank hasn't cycled yet and I don't have any fish. :rollface: Plus, you have a great control for an experiment. Sounds like you've been using the same recipe for some time, and are pretty familiar with the look and activity of your fish so you'll be able to notice any changes.
I'm a saltwater fisherman, so I know what you're talking about. But I'm not making food to entice my fish to eat. If I have trouble getting a new fish to eat, I'll use all sorts of different foods. I don't care as long as it eats. This recipe is for the long term--once I've gotten them to eat.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11039327#post11039327 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HBtank
It's not always about nutrition
I disagree with you here because I only care about giving my fish the best nutrition and not food they prefer. When people reason that their fish loves this or loves that, therefore it must be good for them, I think it's a bit of a cop out. I'll give you a for instance.
My grouper would prefer just pieces of squid or even clumps of fish roe over my recipe because of the higher fat and protein content. But that's a survival mechanism. In the wild it would never get a chance to eat such foods exclusively. If it did, it would probably die prematurely from a fatty liver or nutritional imbalance. All predators get a certain amount of fiber in their diet through the animals they eat, which tend to be the plant-eating variety. Think of it as the way nature "gut loads" the prey of carnivores. :rollface:
My point is that precisely because we have absolute control over what our animals eat, we should use that to our advantage by giving them only what's best for them, whether they prefer it or not. It's the same philosophy as only feeding your dog dog food and not table scraps.
Is there an article or something you can point us to? I've never heard of this but it sounds interesting. My only knowledge of chitin is that it's high in calcium, which in my recipe is taken care of by the seaweed and spinach, which have it in spades.
This is a great point. Color enhancing foods are important to me, but I just didn't consider it when formulating my recipe. I did some googling and found this article, which is def worth a read if you're interested:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i4/Pigments/Pigments.htm
If you read it, you'll see shrimp is actually a good source of carotenoids (one of the main sources of pigmentation for animals). Although higher in cholestoral, it is comparable to scallop in terms of protein, so I will probably substitute some of the scallop for shrimp since it won't "dilute" the amount of protein in the final product.
Incidently, nori does have tons of carotenoids, so through sheer dumb luck, the original recipe I proposed does give a nod towards coloration. I take no credit for this happy accident.
I totally agree that we should tailor our foods to the fish and corals we keep.
But I do challenge you to take a look at the proteins you've listed. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but use the links in my first post to check out their nutrition data. (Actually I don't think mysis has available data). You'll find that for the same mass, squid has the highest protein out of all of these, in some cases by more than double. It, along with shrimp, scallop, and fish roe, are the highest I've found. (Roe blows the roof off of everything but has tons of fat and cholesterol as well.) Compare for yourself some of the proteins you use in your recipe. I've personally looked at octopus, crab, and different fish and didn't see any added benefit of them over the proteins I've listed above. Still, I could have missed something or you might think of another item that I didn't.
Also, the reason why I categorize these into proteins and harp on protein content is that (I'm assuming) you're only using cleaned items and not whole ones. If this is the case, they really are only protein and fat. Protein doesn't tend to have many vitamins or minerals at all. It's mostly amino acids and fats.
Nice thread! Here is my 2 cents to it.
1. We should care about what our fishes eat more than eat we eat ourselves for tow reasons: first, they are small animals with relatively high metabolism (some are more so than others). If there is a deficiency, it will harm them much faster than it ever could a huge omnivore like us.
2. The taste of the staff is critical for the food consumption and consequently to the animal's health. We rely do need to know what they like to eat to make them eat what we want to put in to them. I personally use pellets to induce a good feeding response, so add them to the mix just for the smell. Did test them on my fish with the same mix with and without and could see the difference. There is some garlic in the pellets. Interestingly, the same pellets in their original form (dry) are attractive but totally inedible for the fish, they are just unable to swallow the stuff. For the same reason I believe animals need variety for their psychological wall-being. So I feed fish eggs as is from the fish market (tuna) once or twice a week. If nothing else, it gives the fish something to collect for a while, which plankton feeders do all day every day in the wild. It also enabled me to switch a green mandarin to the prepared stuff within a single day. People talk of the mandarins being trouble to feed. C'mon, it just what u feed them and how that makes all the difference to begin with. Later U can train them about how u feed, but not what.
My logic to it is that organisms philogeletically as close as possible to what they eat in the wild should be fed to have a chance of the correct (and not the reaches possible) diet. Crustations are important fish food in the wild, so why not in captivity?
1. We should care about what our fishes eat more than eat we eat ourselves for tow reasons: first, they are small animals with relatively high metabolism (some are more so than others). If there is a deficiency, it will harm them much faster than it ever could a huge omnivore like us.
2. The taste of the staff is critical for the food consumption and consequently to the animal's health. We rely do need to know what they like to eat to make them eat what we want to put in to them. I personally use pellets to induce a good feeding response, so add them to the mix just for the smell. Did test them on my fish with the same mix with and without and could see the difference. There is some garlic in the pellets. Interestingly, the same pellets in their original form (dry) are attractive but totally inedible for the fish, they are just unable to swallow the stuff. For the same reason I believe animals need variety for their psychological wall-being. So I feed fish eggs as is from the fish market (tuna) once or twice a week. If nothing else, it gives the fish something to collect for a while, which plankton feeders do all day every day in the wild. It also enabled me to switch a green mandarin to the prepared stuff within a single day. People talk of the mandarins being trouble to feed. C'mon, it just what u feed them and how that makes all the difference to begin with. Later U can train them about how u feed, but not what.
My logic to it is that organisms philogeletically as close as possible to what they eat in the wild should be fed to have a chance of the correct (and not the reaches possible) diet. Crustations are important fish food in the wild, so why not in captivity?
timrandlerv10
New member
LIES!
he started off by saying 'my 2 cents' but then used a 25-cent word (philogetically). must all be lies!
if we follow all the logic so far: ingredients are key to health, desire to eat is key to consumption, volume and rate of consumption are important, like/want to eat affects rate and volume, crustaceans are important...how do we not go the next step and raise live food? we could all be raising pods and macro and bbs, but that's got to be really tough compared to by korean 'seafood-buffet-in-a-bag' right?
i think this idea, which is great, is sort of like NASA's 'feeding philosophy': it has to be light, easy, very nutritious, and they have to eat it.
it seems like feeding a mix of clams and spinach would be almost perfect, but man, isnt that boring? or do they not get bored?
i guess what i'm asking is, are we anthropomorphizing (yeah, i know, not a real word...but he used philogetically and i cant catch up...) our livestock when it comes to dinner menus? maybe it really is that easy...i mean, if pizza and beer were nutritious, i'd be set. maybe clams and spinach are their pizza and beer.
actually, a spinach and clam pizza doesnt sound all that bad with a beer that has some heft (but not too dark), like maybe harp...or bass?
IDK what i'm talkin about, i'm hungry again.
you smart guys need to splain it back to me
he started off by saying 'my 2 cents' but then used a 25-cent word (philogetically). must all be lies!
if we follow all the logic so far: ingredients are key to health, desire to eat is key to consumption, volume and rate of consumption are important, like/want to eat affects rate and volume, crustaceans are important...how do we not go the next step and raise live food? we could all be raising pods and macro and bbs, but that's got to be really tough compared to by korean 'seafood-buffet-in-a-bag' right?
i think this idea, which is great, is sort of like NASA's 'feeding philosophy': it has to be light, easy, very nutritious, and they have to eat it.
it seems like feeding a mix of clams and spinach would be almost perfect, but man, isnt that boring? or do they not get bored?
i guess what i'm asking is, are we anthropomorphizing (yeah, i know, not a real word...but he used philogetically and i cant catch up...) our livestock when it comes to dinner menus? maybe it really is that easy...i mean, if pizza and beer were nutritious, i'd be set. maybe clams and spinach are their pizza and beer.
actually, a spinach and clam pizza doesnt sound all that bad with a beer that has some heft (but not too dark), like maybe harp...or bass?
IDK what i'm talkin about, i'm hungry again.
you smart guys need to splain it back to me
I had to look it up... is it "phylogenetically?" Regardless, I'd pay a solid $1.50 for that word! I think it means related from an evolutionary standpoint. Still I don't quite get the word and its use. Imma just pretend I do... But I do know anthropomorphize, and you used it beautifully. :rollface:
I think the main reason I started the thread was because as obssessed as we all are about our tanks, when we make our own food, the kitchen sink approach feels "safer." But most of the time, it's based on no real research on our part. Every ingredient that is used that isn't as good as another one on the laundry list serves to dilute the potentcy of the food. My goal here is also, in part, to have highly concentrated food so I don't have to feed my tank as much. In other words, if my few key ingredients is far more nutritious than other recipes or storebought foods, then I don't need to feed my fish quite as much. Keep in mind that a good proportion of food is actually fiber or other undigestibles (in nutrition data terms, "ash"). Food that is more concentrated would presumably have a greater proportion of it absorbed and less of it coming out as waste.
As for the boring part, my fish eats tons of my mix and not one of them (I have tangs, an angel, a puffer, a grouper, a trigger, an eel, and hermits) doesn't attempt to gorge itself on the stuff. If my recipe is indeed more nutritious but not as "appealing," I still think it's better as my fish wouldn't need as much of it to get the same amount of nutrition. FWIW though, my fish seem to like everything the same. If I were to split hairs, they might prefer Ocean Nutrition pellets over my recipe but prefer my recipe over Ocean Nutrition frozen foods. But like I said, I'm splitting hairs. They would stuff themselves on any of all three.
P.S. I'm way too lazy to raise my own food.
P.P.S. Fat Tire w/ pizza. Harp and bass are great too, but with pizza, I like the Fat Tire hoppiness.
But I do know anthropomorphize, and you used it beautifully. :rollface: I think the main reason I started the thread was because as obssessed as we all are about our tanks, when we make our own food, the kitchen sink approach feels "safer." But most of the time, it's based on no real research on our part. Every ingredient that is used that isn't as good as another one on the laundry list serves to dilute the potentcy of the food. My goal here is also, in part, to have highly concentrated food so I don't have to feed my tank as much. In other words, if my few key ingredients is far more nutritious than other recipes or storebought foods, then I don't need to feed my fish quite as much. Keep in mind that a good proportion of food is actually fiber or other undigestibles (in nutrition data terms, "ash"). Food that is more concentrated would presumably have a greater proportion of it absorbed and less of it coming out as waste.
As for the boring part, my fish eats tons of my mix and not one of them (I have tangs, an angel, a puffer, a grouper, a trigger, an eel, and hermits) doesn't attempt to gorge itself on the stuff. If my recipe is indeed more nutritious but not as "appealing," I still think it's better as my fish wouldn't need as much of it to get the same amount of nutrition. FWIW though, my fish seem to like everything the same. If I were to split hairs, they might prefer Ocean Nutrition pellets over my recipe but prefer my recipe over Ocean Nutrition frozen foods. But like I said, I'm splitting hairs. They would stuff themselves on any of all three.
P.S. I'm way too lazy to raise my own food.
P.P.S. Fat Tire w/ pizza. Harp and bass are great too, but with pizza, I like the Fat Tire hoppiness.
Fishie Nut
Premium Member
Thanks for the education.
I'm off the the Asian market and Trader Joe's
I'm off the the Asian market and Trader Joe's
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