Hotumatua, Debelius, Resplendent
- Thread starter Jordani
- Start date
copps
Premium Member
All Marshall Islands fish, including Centropyge multicolor, used to go through Hawaiian wholesalers before hitting LA... now many go direct from the Marshalls to LA... one of the big reasons for the price drop...
The debelius pair I received was one of the most tragic moments in my fishkeeping life... the airlines had their fun with the box and the fish arrived in rough shape and lasted less than 12 hours... the shot of them above is in Hawaii... I was in Hawaii just before receiving them and the fish looked great... The wild male interrupta was never paired with a fish by me... the CB interrupta I received from Frank I received with the one and only CB joculator ever raised... these two fish were spawning together for Frank as a mixed species pair. I placed the pair in with my wild still growing harem of joculators, and as expected the CB joc dumped the interrupta and began spawning with the jocs... to this day the CB joc is the spawning male... The CB resplendens I received with the wild C. fisheri that of course sawned for Frank, and within days of receiving them they were spawning in a 54 gallon system I placed them in. I also still have the pair of Centropyge colini that Frank spawned... these guys have been in my large sps reef for years with a host of tough fish and they still come out nightly to spawn... this unique species has grown on me and while it is a common color (yellow and blue), it is a very unique Centropyge species in its behavior and morphology, with the little known Centropyge narcosis being its only close relative...
The ridiculous amount of blue on my CB male interrupta I am unable to explain... but what a fish!
Copps
roktsintst
New member
Man, i just love to read your posts John. You've always got some cool news/knowledge!
That Debelius loss would have killed me! I would love a Debelius but I want a Resplendent more! I may just have to settle for an African FlameBack pair and just wait for a Resplendent to come off the Endangered Species List!
Do your spawning pairs ususal do the deed at dusk, or after lights out?
That Debelius loss would have killed me! I would love a Debelius but I want a Resplendent more! I may just have to settle for an African FlameBack pair and just wait for a Resplendent to come off the Endangered Species List!
Do your spawning pairs ususal do the deed at dusk, or after lights out?
Yurivd
New member
skibum9884
Active member
I was going to say, that CB male interrupta is the most incredible thing I've ever seen! Since Frank isn't going to have any Centropyge in the near future, I may be doing a wild one.
hmm, I always have seen this fish listed as C. interuptus? Has there been a change?
And John, is anyone trying to breed Resplendents? ( BTW I heard they were incredibly AGGRESSIVE pygmy angels, worse than a male C. argi). Sure wish we could get some more..
*****
Actually, in his shoes, I'd ask why that C. bicolor was priced too high! LOL
Matthew
And John, is anyone trying to breed Resplendents? ( BTW I heard they were incredibly AGGRESSIVE pygmy angels, worse than a male C. argi). Sure wish we could get some more..
*****
Actually, in his shoes, I'd ask why that C. bicolor was priced too high! LOL
Matthew
Yurivd
New member
i have finally found out how the colors work
interraptus from Ogasawara is more orange and collected in shallower water
that means that thy are better decompressed and have a much better survival rate
so watch out for the all blue ones
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
Doesn't everyone have people in Mauritius? :lol: I get lovely irregular shaped sugar cubes from there and sip my tea while dreaming of far away places. Now I'll be thinking about the debelius angels too
copps
Premium Member
Sorry for chiming in late guys...
Both... They'll start at different times, but it is either when the actinics only are on or everything is off and just the room lights are on. I have a crepuscular effect on my systems, but much more important than that to induce spawning is length of day...
A simple question with a complex answer... Recently it was realized Centropyge is actually a feminine genus rather than masculine, so those species names that are adjectival as in this case, are made feminine... so the correct species name is Centropyge interrupta. Do not change all though... flames stay as Centropyge loriculus!
The more I keep pygmies the more I put aggression on situations and individuals rather than species... Seemingly docile species could become very aggressive under certain circumstances... and hopefully we'll see resplendents in the near future...
Having seen a large group of freshly collected true Hawaiian interrupta I can confirm that these are more orange than the mainland Japanese specimens, but I have not seen freshly collected specimens from Ogasawara... perhaps they are more similar to the Hawaiians? Keep in mind that both sexual dichromatism and their time in captivity also play a role in the orange to blue ratio, so you need to be either comparing wild or freshly collected fish...
What I meant by people in Mauritius are the groups of collectors there already... they are far from setup to go that deep, and again this is a very rare fish at Mauritius... you could see a photo of the holotype in Helmut Debelius' book... Rich Pyle was with Helmut on that trip and told me that was the only specimen they saw! Rich went much deeper expecting to see more as is common with many deep Centropyge, and he didn't! Rich thinks the major populations of that species are somewhere else... not far away at Reunion though Apolemichthys guezei makes debelius look common!
Both... They'll start at different times, but it is either when the actinics only are on or everything is off and just the room lights are on. I have a crepuscular effect on my systems, but much more important than that to induce spawning is length of day...
A simple question with a complex answer... Recently it was realized Centropyge is actually a feminine genus rather than masculine, so those species names that are adjectival as in this case, are made feminine... so the correct species name is Centropyge interrupta. Do not change all though... flames stay as Centropyge loriculus!
The more I keep pygmies the more I put aggression on situations and individuals rather than species... Seemingly docile species could become very aggressive under certain circumstances... and hopefully we'll see resplendents in the near future...
Having seen a large group of freshly collected true Hawaiian interrupta I can confirm that these are more orange than the mainland Japanese specimens, but I have not seen freshly collected specimens from Ogasawara... perhaps they are more similar to the Hawaiians? Keep in mind that both sexual dichromatism and their time in captivity also play a role in the orange to blue ratio, so you need to be either comparing wild or freshly collected fish...
Doesn't everyone have people in Mauritius? :lol: I get lovely irregular shaped sugar cubes from there and sip my tea while dreaming of far away places. Now I'll be thinking about the debelius angels too
What I meant by people in Mauritius are the groups of collectors there already... they are far from setup to go that deep, and again this is a very rare fish at Mauritius... you could see a photo of the holotype in Helmut Debelius' book... Rich Pyle was with Helmut on that trip and told me that was the only specimen they saw! Rich went much deeper expecting to see more as is common with many deep Centropyge, and he didn't! Rich thinks the major populations of that species are somewhere else... not far away at Reunion though Apolemichthys guezei makes debelius look common!
Angel*Fish
cats and large squashes
The more I keep pygmies the more I put aggression on situations and individuals rather than species... Seemingly docile species could become very aggressive under certain circumstances... and hopefully we'll see resplendents in the near future...
- I knew you didn't really mean family, but I couldn't resist. That's very interesting stuff.I haven't owned that many different species of Centropyge, but as far as aggression goes, the one that has to me seemed like a "perfect angel" is heraldi. I've posted this a number of times and no one ever comments on it. Both of the Herald's angels I had seemed to just be so well behaved. Not saying they'd be pushed around, just seemed to have skills getting along with the community. And here's the crazy thing - the last one I had was in a very active tank and would engage in behavior that from a human point of view appeared to actively break up bickering among some of the other fish. As if he was trying to keep the peace. If you have any speculation on that I'd be very interested.
I think what you you said about the situational thing makes perfect sense (fwiw) and also that it's very common for aquarists to not respect or understand the situational "preference" of their angels.
@copp,
can you tell...
1.why A.guezei is so rare though their depth range is stated at 60-80m..less than some other well known angel species...?
2.if bellina angel can be seen in abandoned at Lord Howe Island at normal scuba depth,why it is listed as endangered specimen...?
P.S:you told that you will re-upload all those photos in your thread that can't be seen now due to some problem with your photobucket account..when you are going to do that..?:beachbum:
can you tell...
1.why A.guezei is so rare though their depth range is stated at 60-80m..less than some other well known angel species...?
2.if bellina angel can be seen in abandoned at Lord Howe Island at normal scuba depth,why it is listed as endangered specimen...?
P.S:you told that you will re-upload all those photos in your thread that can't be seen now due to some problem with your photobucket account..when you are going to do that..?:beachbum:
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copps
Premium Member
Depth and rareness are two separate things... and at that depth that is well beyond standard scuba...
As to why guezei is that rare no one knows... this fish was first caught by gill net in the early 70s by Paul Gueze, the fish's namesake. When I was behind the scenes at the Bishop Museum a few years ago I went through the angelfish collection with Jack Randall... incidentally Jack described this species, but Jack has described more reef fish species than any ichthyologist in history, now over 700, including the newest species of angelfish! This is the holotype specimen photo Jack took...
Here is a shot I took holding the jar with that historic fish... they put red ribbons around the holotype fish (the exact single specimen used to describe the species)...
This is the only known living image of the species (that I've confirmed)... taken by Mauritian diver/photographer Hughes Vitry...
A. guezei is by far the least known and seen of the described angelfish species...
Chaetodontoplus ballinae is not listed as endangered, it is just protected as a species by the New South Wales government (its entire known range is withing NSW), in addition to protection at Lord Howe as a World Heritage Site.
Technically, ballina angels have never been seen at Lord Howe, only at Ball's Pyramid, a small island about a dozen miles off of the coast of Lord Howe... so in essence the species has double protection there... in this photo you could see Lord Howe in the back...
The reason the species has protection is because before 1994 it was based on just two specimens collected deep off of the Australian mainland... off Ballina, New South Wales... thus the namesake... the species was discovered at Ball's pyramid in 1994, and is relatively easily seen... every living photo of this species is taken from there...
As to why it is protected if it could be regularly seen at scuba depths probably has to do with the fact that Ball's Pyramid is a 600 foot rock! Any collection could quickly wipe out the species there, although it is probably found well into the depths there...
New photos are coming in the first week of January... and I promise I'll have a bunch!
Copps
skibum9884
Active member
Very cool John. That picture of Ball's Pyramid is very cool. I need to get out more, the view of my desk and computer isn't quite as stunning as what you've just posted!
copps
Premium Member
I have not dived there, but Frank Baensch (of RCT) has many photos from both Lord Howe and Ball's Pyramid... including many shots he showed me of ballina angels... he has one posted on his site...
http://www.bluereefphoto.org/p532585213/h27a16d1a#h27a16d1a
For angelfish nuts there is the incredible Lord Howe endemic Genicanthus semicinctus... it is documented from the Kermadec Islands also but I found out that was just one specimen... so Lord Howe is basically it! Check out this male!
http://www.bluereefphoto.org/p532585213/h26410cab#h26410cab
http://www.bluereefphoto.org/p532585213/h27a16d1a#h27a16d1a
For angelfish nuts there is the incredible Lord Howe endemic Genicanthus semicinctus... it is documented from the Kermadec Islands also but I found out that was just one specimen... so Lord Howe is basically it! Check out this male!
http://www.bluereefphoto.org/p532585213/h26410cab#h26410cab
Aqua-Mauritius
New member
there's possiblity of A.Geuzei in the south-west part of Mauritius. But those places even for the mnost experienced divers could prove lethal if the dive is not well organised.
There's only guy ( D.Pelicier) who had been collecting species over 50m, and even he has not ever caught one, SO I guess the specimen itself is extremely rare. There are some diving spots places in Mauritius which has yet to be visited and discovered.
