How do you power your reef?

[sayn3ver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9616898#post9616898 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
If that's the way you want to live "knock yourself out" but I grew up on in NYC and have had my fill of "efficiency". I live about 25 miles into the rural countryside of Virginia and would not trade it for the world.
Keep in mind, natural human migration is cyclical. "Sprawl" is nothing new, it has been happening since humans were dragging there knuckles on the ground. It goes from city center to suburbs to ex-burbs(countryside) then starts all over again.

I didn't say i like to live that way. I live in a philly suburb and hate the city for all its worth. The point was, its makes more sense to live that way rather than having every household drive 10-20 minutes or more to the grocery store. It also is cheaper alot of other ways. I am still in college but if i had the cash now i'd go and buy 10,20,40? acres somewhere, build a small house with a small footprint(physicall, energy wise, visually), and try to be as self sustaining as possible(granted i worked from home via satelite interweb).

The big difference between the beginning of man and now is that we didn't cement over every path we traveled....only the last couple hundred years or so. All of that "open space" is nice, all of that "forest" is nice too and i sure as hell don't want every square inch of space on this planet paved over. We are continuing to sprawl and probably won't stop until its one big city. then all of your crops and the food produced will be real healthy.

And I don't get it, people refuse to see the connection between the presence of human beings and the destruction of natural beauty.

 

[Rosseau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9625039#post9625039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sayn3ver


And I don't get it, people refuse to see the connection between the presence of human beings and the destruction of natural beauty.

Well said.






Also, Virgina - Though I would agree sprawl and human migration is cyclical in some sense, I'm not so sure that it is in the long run. Nor are past trends entirely applicable to today's world. The globalized culture we're in/entering is quite different than anything ever before (IMO, I'm not alone either). This affects migration and related processes all along the line.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9625039#post9625039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sayn3ver
I didn't say i like to live that way.

Well... this sounds like another instance of somebody with a solution that they are unwilling to abide by themsleves.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9625039#post9625039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sayn3ver


And I don't get it, people refuse to see the connection between the presence of human beings and the destruction of natural beauty.

Because there is no connection.
Despite the messes we do make, humans go to extraordinary lengths to preserve natural habitats the Mother Nature herself would destroy.

 

[Rosseau]

Virginia........


Yes nature "destroys" itself, but it creates in its place. We're having the impact of incredibly decreasing the ability of nature to recreate.


We don't go to extraordinary lengths in general, and you know it.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9625055#post9625055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau

Also, Virgina - Though I would agree sprawl and human migration is cyclical in some sense

Try EVERY sense. It always has been and always will be.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9625055#post9625055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau
I'm not so sure that it is in the long run. Nor are past trends entirely applicable to today's world. The globalized culture we're in/entering is quite different than anything ever before (IMO, I'm not alone either). This affects migration and related processes all along the line.

It does not matter what YOU are sure of. I'm not surprised you are willing to disregard past trends to validate your emotions. Oh, and another point...we are not just entering a global culture either. I am sorry to be the one to inform you but history did not begin on the day you were born.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9636857#post9636857 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau

We don't go to extraordinary lengths in general, and you know it.

Speak for yourself. North America(yes, including canada) happens to be at the fore front of this effort.

By the way..have you had a chance to see any of the Planet Earth special on the Discovery channel lately? After watching several episodes I am more convinced than ever that human beings have ZERO influence on any of Earths natural cycles.

 

[Rosseau]

nice I sparked a little emotion. I don't mean to make it personal, I'll calm down now.


My point about the migration cycles is really that today's cycles and patterns are influenced by many different (and some of the same) processes than in the past. We have tried to measure and analyze human development yet aren't sure where the system is going.It has never been at this point before and we don't have history to look back on right now (yes it helps, but isn't 100% applicable). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition .. Though I don't love wikipedia, it's a decent overview of what I'm refering to. Specifically the demographic transition model.


The reason I said IMO and what I'M not sure of is because I wasn't about to put up sources, though my reasoning is supplemented by papers etc.



Virginia, when you were born there were about 3.6 Billion people in the world. Today we're nearing 7 Billion. All of this in your short lifetime. I don't think you can argue that the "cycles" are going to be entirely unaffected and that life will continue exactly as it always has. Nor can you argue that our impact on the earth is going to be identical to how it was in the 1800's, or any other date you want to mention really.

Things are different today and are changing at a more rapid pace than every before in human history (you probably won’t like that statement… fair enough).

I don’t want to start wildly sourcing left wing ideas for fear of sounding like a “know-it-all-college-hippie”. These are my opinions and are shared by many others.

 

[Rosseau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9636958#post9636958 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
After watching several episodes I am more convinced than ever that human beings have ZERO influence on any of Earths natural cycles.

lol....

 

[scottras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9636831#post9636831 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69

Because there is no connection.
Despite the messes we do make, humans go to extraordinary lengths to preserve natural habitats the Mother Nature herself would destroy. [/B]

Just out of interest, and I am in no way saying your statement is incorrect: Do you have any examples of this? I could not think of any myself, but I am not totally awake yet.

 

[virginiadiver69]

You can't be serious! You can't think of any ways that we preserve natural habitats?
I would be aghast if the people of Australia do not put forth a great effort to preserve your barrier reef.
I think you should go back to bed and get a little more beauty sleep. :lol:

 

[Rosseau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9644019#post9644019 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
You can't be serious! You can't think of any ways that we preserve natural habitats?
I would be aghast if the people of Australia do not put forth a great effort to preserve your barrier reef.
I think you should go back to bed and get a little more beauty sleep. :lol:

As shown by the results of your thread "How do you power your reef?", the average human action/effort is not made with the natural environment as a top priority.

Yes, obviously some people and some places put a certain amount of effort into conservation efforts. However there are only small pockets of places where conservation is the top priority for humans.

Again, I think you know this.



It's funny how you managed not to reply to my above post, I would welcome a response. If you're up to it of course.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9644084#post9644084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau
As shown by the results of your thread "How do you power your reef?", the average human action/effort is not made with the natural environment as a top priority.

The poll was sarcastic.
It Does not really matter what the motivation is if the outcome is a benefit. I also happen to believe that the ends do in-fact justify the means.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9644084#post9644084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau

Yes, obviously some people and some places put a certain amount of effort into conservation efforts. However there are only small pockets of places where conservation is the top priority for humans.

Your a biology undergrad? I think you should give your parents a refund on all of that tuition money you are wasting!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9644084#post9644084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau

It's funny how you managed not to reply to my above post, I would welcome a response. If you're up to it of course.

What post are you referring to?

 

[Rosseau]

When I have time later I'll respond to the rest of that. However, for now I want to mention the part about...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rosseau

Yes, obviously some people and some places put a certain amount of effort into conservation efforts. However there are only small pockets of places where conservation is the top priority for humans.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your a biology undergrad? I think you should give your parents a refund on all of that tuition money you are wasting!

-------------



Think of a place where conservation is #1 priority. Let's say Yellowstone National Park. They are big on conservation (even though tourism is allowed and is potentially an overall negative), I won't deny that.

However, Yellowstone is SMALL POCKET within the greater ecosystem it is a part of. Do you think migrating wolves and bears know to stay within the park boundaries? Once they leave the SMALL POCKET they are no longer protected.

So, yes there are places where conservation is seen as important yet in the bigger picture this is a very small percentage of the effort/area.

Yellowstone is one of many examples of what I am talking about. I'm not saying we should declare North America bear and wolf land and that we should all fck off back to Europe. Rather I'm describing how it is.

 

[virginiadiver69]

You can trick yourself into thinking in terms of small pockets when you can only think of ONE example. There are thousands upon thousands if not millions of efforts being made from the individual hunter/outdoors-man to national governments. It is still my opinion that it is in fact the U.S. government that does the lions share.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9644367#post9644367 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau

Do you think migrating wolves and bears know to stay within the park boundaries? Once they leave the SMALL POCKET they are no longer protected.

They are not zapped out of existence either. Conservation does not end at those boundaries.

 

[scottras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9644019#post9644019 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
You can't be serious! You can't think of any ways that we preserve natural habitats?
I would be aghast if the people of Australia do not put forth a great effort to preserve your barrier reef.
I think you should go back to bed and get a little more beauty sleep. :lol:

Lol I live 50meters from the worlds second oldest national park. The question I asked was in relation to your post.

Despite the messes we do make, humans go to extraordinary lengths to preserve natural habitats the Mother Nature herself would destroy.

What I was asking is: what habitats are preserved by humans that mother nature would otherwise destroy?

Or have I missunderstood your statement?

And no, I do not need a little beauty sleep. I need lots and lots.

 

[scottras]

Just a note on Solar Power. Sliver Cells are now being tested that are much more efficient than standard solar cells. Currently around 20% more efficient. A great benefit though is that they will be cheaper to produce, around 60% cheaper to make than current solar cells as they use 90% less silicon to make.

Not only that they can be made flexible or transparent.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9648200#post9648200 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras


What I was asking is: what habitats are preserved by humans that mother nature would otherwise destroy?

Wildlife habitats, hunting grounds, natural and artificial reefs, nature preserves to name a few. Now...please do not get me wrong, I in no way think that She needs our help(we usually just make things worse) but none the less, we do go to great lengths to preserve our natural habitats.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9648300#post9648300 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras
Just a note on Solar Power. Sliver Cells are now being tested that are much more efficient than standard solar cells. Currently around 20% more efficient. A great benefit though is that they will be cheaper to produce, around 60% cheaper to make than current solar cells as they use 90% less silicon to make.

Not only that they can be made flexible or transparent.

COOL! Let us know when you get yours installed.

 

[Rosseau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9656168#post9656168 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
COOL! Let us know when you get yours installed.

Amusing.

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9557741#post9557741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
I don't suggest you start eating cat food or anything. I have gathered you are someone who is so certain of OUR imminent demise that can be averted by human intervention. I'm sure even someone who is as "poor" as you are could find funds to offset your carbon footprint. Some examples; reduce the minutes on your cell phone...hell, get rid of your cell phone. Do you have cable tv, satellite even? How many video games do you buy in a year, how much music do you download?

Ahhh, that was a nice break from this thread. Anyway, to answer your questions: I don't have a house phone, so I have a cell, but I use maybe a quarter of my minutes, if that. I don't have cable or satellite TV, I buy about 3 games a year and don't download music. I'm not just poor, I'm in debt. And yes wlagarde, it's because I'm a recent grad. My only real luxuries are my computer and my aquarium. The rest of my free money is spent mostly on books and beer. To be honest, there's not a whole lot more to conserve. My shoes maybe, they have holes in them and need conserving.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9557741#post9557741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
I built my house about 1 1/2 yrs ago. I calculated about a 20% premium to have it built in manner that would allow me to be very low impact. As stated before, all of my non-potable water is a rain water collection system($15,000), I take military style showers(soap up, turn off water while I wash then back on to rinse.), turn OFF the water when actually brushing my teeth instead of letting it run the whole time, hot water heater is a demand only system about the size of a brief case($1,500), I use a hot water loop so I don't have to let the water run to get hot water($50), cloths washer is a front loading style that uses less than a gallon of water per load($1,500), cloths are hung out to dry when the temp allows for it(which is most of the year), geothermal water loop for mid range temp control($10,000), 16 SEER furnace and air conditioning for extreme temps($3,000 x 3), about 50% of my daytime lighting is provided by solar tubes($2,000), I recycle and compost, most of my "refrigeration" is done in my root/wine cellar(I do have a small refrigerator for fresh fish, dairy and meat). All of my meat and dairy is harvested locally and last but not least not a SINGLE splinter of wood was used in any fashion in the construction. It is 100% concrete, recycled plastic polymers, steel and glass. It's not one of these ultra modern homes either. If you didn't no any better you would swear it was a circa 1800 Victorian.
My motivation was not to "save the earth" either. I live in a roual aria where "services" are iffy at best. I also like the idea of self sufficiency.

Sounds like some of the features I wish I had. Makes me wonder why you bash things like solar panels though. Seems like they're right up your alley. That's great that you conserve water, but that's not really the issue here. Is there a shortage of water in Virginia?