How is the hosting instinct on your designer clowns?

Great, here we go again...now I will have to deal with everyone buying a clownfish asking " but will they host? I heard tank bred clowns don't host..." Sigh...

Yes, a clown that has already hosted an anemone is more likely to host one. No, it doesn't have anything to do with whether they were born in captivity or not.

Really wish we could stop this old argument...but it just...won't...die...lol!
 
addictedreefer: "For each such success story, I have heard of many in which tank raised clowns don't host despite the presence of one or more natural host anemones."

I've heard lots of accounts where tank-bred almost immediately adopted natural host species. I've heard of only one that I can recall where it took a week or so for a tank-bred to gravitate to a natural host.

I've observed a tomato clown that I had happily living in in an LTA, abandon the LTA for a BTA (natural host) as soon as the BTA had grown large enough to halfway accommodate it.

Much of the information we have about anemones is anecdotal. How many of us are actually running controlled studies to corroborate the assertions that we make?

There has been research conducted that indicates that clownfish are instinctively attracted to the "scent" of host species. When in aquariums, clownfish are often hosted by non-natural hosts, eg., a tomato in an LTA. Perhaps this is because an LTA smells at least a little like a BTA, or perhaps the visual cue of tentacles waving also plays some role in the attraction of clowns to anemones. Without research, no one can say with any certainty. However, with research it has been established that host species release a "scent" (I'm assuming the scent is associated with the slime shed of the anemone) and this attracts clownfish. And this is consistent with most all of the anecdotal reports I've read on RC where tank-bred is not the issue, the issue for being hosted is natural vs. non-natural.


Totally agree. The wild caught more likely to host is a myth and I wish it would die already. IMO it is irresponsible to encourage people to buy wild caught clowns. Captive bred are readily available, and there is just no reason for it.
 
I can't think of the last time I introduced a wild caught clown to my tank. I had many many tank raised clowns and never have them hesitated from going into a natural host
 
Last edited:
Picked up a picasso about a year ago. & started hosting my rbta within hours. Just a few weeks ago I got an onyx misbar & same thing, hosted its own rbta withing hours.
 
The pool is pretty small still but this is a decent amount of tank breds that had no problem hosting anemones.
Picked up a picasso about a year ago. & started hosting my rbta within hours. Just a few weeks ago I got an onyx misbar & same thing, hosted its own rbta withing hours.

My ora blood orange misbar started hosting my bta after 7 days.

My captive bred ocellaris and captive bred percs immediately went to my mags.
The same for my captive bred maroons and BTAs.

My captive bred pearl eye clarkii was in a bubble tip within a minute of being in the tank.

My FishEye Aquaculture picassos went in my gig within minutes. My ORA snowflakes went in my btas within a couple weeks.

I've had no problems with my designer clowns going in anemones; i've had snowflakes, picassos, black snowflakes, bw darwins all go in anemones in 2 weeks or less.

Took less than 2 weeks for my tank-bred Onyx juvy clowns to be hosted in H. Crispa.

I had a pair premium blacker ice clowns and they jump to the nem within 30 minutes.
 
I think it would be interesting to see a study on this. In my experience, I believe that wilds do more readily go into anemones-but I have only had a few hundred, with no controls- so it is anecdotal. It does stand to reason that mutations or culls- especially line bred would have different behaviors at some point, just like goldfish or dogs.
 
I know you aren't supposed to have more than a pair per tank. I have 13 tank raised percs, all babies from a local reefer that bred them (guessing at least 3rd gen), all went into a gig before I took my hand out of my tank (in spring). Haven't left, but the tank has multiple hosting species of anemones. All anemones are used today. They never saw an anemone in their life before the gig. I'm guessing, it has more to do with the match of natural host to proper fish. Just a guess from what I've seen/read.
 
From Anemone fishes and their host sea anemones by Fautin and Allen:

"Miyagawa found, in aquaria, that newly metamorphosed fry of some species locate an anemone by chemicals that are constantly being released by the anemone, much as a salmon senses its home stream, and that vision plays no role. These chemicals differ among species, so larval fish are attracted to anemones of species with which fish of that species naturally occur, but not to anemones of other species. However, fry of other fish are not attracted to anemones with which they naturally occur. So clownfishes may differ in how they select and locate hosts, as well as how they are protected from them."

D-Nak - The articles you cite miss the point. These sources stand only for the proposition that scent is the primary way by which clownfish FIND their host anemones. I have never disputed that. My point is that captive bred clowns are less inclined to know what they should do with that scent-based chemical attraction. In the wild, once a juvenile clown locates a suitable host, he will almost inevitably find that it is already hosting one or more clownfish "“ therein lies the learned component.

I think Puffyluv makes an excellent point. Clownfish that have been hosted before will be much more likely to host in the future, regardless of whether they are wild caught or tank bred. It just so happens that the vast majority of tank raised clowns available in the hobby have never laid eyes on an anemone before, while every single wild caught clown has been hosted its entire (post-larval) life.

On a similar note, I wonder how many of the tank bred "œsuccess story" clowns had either been hosted before or were introduced to aquariums where clowns were already hosted. I suspect that latter is certainly true for Minh, as well as many others. Similarly, to address Taylor T's point, logic dictates that odds certainly will favor hosting if you add large numbers of tank raised clowns. Consistent with my learned behavior hypothesis, it only takes one clown to begin hosting in order to set off a chain reaction for the others.

BlueFyre "“ Until a study specific to this issue is performed, dismissing my theory and the experiences of countless hobbyists as mere "œmyth" is inappropriate and indeed, very narrow-minded. Until such a study is performed, all we have is our experiences and logical deduction. It is not an illogical leap to deduce that clownfish collected from host anemones in the wild will be more likely to be hosted more quickly in the captive environment than tank-bred counterparts that have never seen an anemone before and with genes that may be far removed from wild stock and uninfluenced by nature's elimination of clowns that are not hosted quickly.

Lastly, BlueFyre, I disagree with your characterization of the collection of wild clowns as irresponsible. Last I checked, the majority of clownfish species remain plentiful. The risk posed by collection for the aquarium hobby is infinitesimal when compared to the dangers posed by habitat destruction. As for the reasons for desiring wild clowns, the natural behavior and appearance of wild clowns are unparalleled by their tank bred counterparts. IME, on average, captive bred clowns more often than not have stunted, non-proportional bodies and/or "œsmushed" faces. Furthermore, I fear that those and other defects, and eventually poor health, will eventually ensue due to pervasive inbreeding and the removal of natural selection from the equation, thus permitting sub-standard (and IMO deformed) clowns to survive and procreate. In addition, I firmly believe that wild behaviors (yes, including hosting) will continue to be bred out of the tank raised population as successive generations are reared "“ there is simply no evolutionary reason to preserve those behaviors in tank bred populations and the gene pool will respond accordingly.
 
What you're implying via a learned behavior component is that tank bred clowns may be attracted to the scent, and therefore the anemone, but then aren't sure what to do. This is not the case as they find the anemone via chemical cues, then begin the assimilation process. You never see clowns hovering near anemones but never enter. This would indicate that there is some confusion. We can also assume that this chemical scent may be diluted in the small tank environment to the point where it may be throughout the entire tank, yet somehow captive-bred clowns can still find their natural host -- and many times within seconds of placement in the tank.

Finally, I'm not sure why you're fighting what others are all pointing out -- that when their captive-bred clowns are presented with a natural host anemone, they are in the host very quickly. Could it be slower than a wild clown? Possibly. But not by much, and certainly not to the point where it matters to those people deciding between wild or tank-bred. The only person who is disputing this is you. For the purposes of answering the OP's question, I think the rest of us agree that the answer is "the hosting instinct of our designer clowns is very strong when presented with a natural host."
 
The pool is pretty small still but this is a decent amount of tank breds that had no problem hosting anemones.
True, but it's not overwhelming examples in the opposite direction. I only asked because I've seen mention of that happening and noticed that my tank-raised clowns didn't flock to an unnatural host like my Bicinctus clowns did. I know wild clowns have all of the instincts and genetic programming that are needed in the wild. I know tank bred clowns, especially designer clowns, are several generations away from wild clowns. Designer clowns also come from a relatively narrow selection pool, so it's not out of the question to ponder if, along the way, the instinct for selecting a host has diminished. I know changes like that normally take thousands of generations, but there's really no telling where a 'switch' may lie in the cycle. If that was the case I thought there'd be some anecdotal evidence that crept up over the last few years. It seems to be case of the wild fish already knowing a host and rushing to it and a tank raised clown having to figure it out...if it's even that. I doubt there will ever be enough controlled tests (or even one) to really answer the question one way or the other.

Thanks for the help guys, and the good discussion. I'll be in the market for a pair of Picassos or Davincis and a BTA when I determine that the tank is stable enough for them. It's being set up from dry rock and sand with established rock, so the typical cycle should be a non-issue. I'll probably have them in within the month if some SPS frags make it and start growing soon.
 
Tank bred Osc, doesn't like any of the Nems. Magnifica right by his natural sleeping spot, ignores it.

So he ignores the natural host... The only theory I have regarding the wild clowns, if they don't adapt to a Nem quickly, survival rates dramatically plummet. Hence, most caught are used to having a Nem. Just a theory....
 
My captive bred percs took 8 months to host in a RBTA. It happened within days of drastically changing the flow pattern in the tank. May be a coincidence, but I think not.
 
My tankbred darwin clowns don't have a host anemone in their tank so they are living in some dragon's breath macro. Silly clowns. The instinct is there and they are making due. Never seen an anemone in their life.

I still stand by suggesting buying wild caught clowns is irresponsible. Most people are just looking for some nice looking clowns, not for breeding purposes. There may be plenty now of some species in the wild but it will not always be like that. A. percula has already been proposed for the endangered species act due to over harvesting. To think we as hobbyist have no have an affect on wild reefs is naive IMO.
 
Another evidence is the fact that 25 years ago- we never had calls about clowns not being hosted-it was only after tank breds appeared that all the hosting and sleeping at the surface questions started.
 
Tank bred Osc, doesn't like any of the Nems. Magnifica right by his natural sleeping spot, ignores it.

So he ignores the natural host... The only theory I have regarding the wild clowns, if they don't adapt to a Nem quickly, survival rates dramatically plummet. Hence, most caught are used to having a Nem. Just a theory....
Do you have a picture of your anemone? especially the mouth of the anemone?
 
Another evidence is the fact that 25 years ago- we never had calls about clowns not being hosted-it was only after tank breds appeared that all the hosting and sleeping at the surface questions started.
25 years ago we can't keep host anemone period.
 
Do you have a picture of your anemone? especially the mouth of the anemone?

Here's a quick vid I made a few months ago, can't really see his mouth. At this point it's been in the display 2 months. Still hasn't moved or ever deflated. The Haddoni still loves his corner.

http://vid1158.photobucket.com/albu...8-A5A1-4885-AC92-5E018100E0B5_zps4tanu6sd.mp4

Here's the thread i made when I first got it and treated it.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2424384
 
Certainly a Magnifica. I was thinking it maybe that you miss ID it and it is a BTA instead. One fish does not go into natural host quickly.
 
Back
Top