how many of you sps keepers use DE halides (HQI)?
- Thread starter fishykidd916
- Start date
I designed my current tank to have a suspended fixture with a clean simple look. I knew the DE light fixtures were best for this design, as stated by Mark. MY tank is a lower profile look down clam/sps tank so light dispersal into the living room was a concern. We get no problem with glare. I am very happy with the look of the tank with the DE bulbs. I think both lights have their pros and cons for different systems.
I have all 14KK Phoenix bulbs and like the appearance. One thing to remember is that a bulb with alot of blue light may look less bright to us compared to a bulb with the same PAR but a more "natural" spectrum. To the corals though the bulbs' brightness will "look" the same. So a "less bright appearance" may be a reason to change bulbs for our viewing pleasure but the only way to determine the true brightness (as seen by the corals) is by PAR measurements.
Allen
cthetoy
Active member
After a short research I found out that the type of ballast used makes a huge difference in light appearance. I was wondering why some people said their same brand 10k bulbs looked white and some said it looked so yellow but it was actually the ballast they were using were different. For example the CCT on the XM 250 watts 10k bulbs ranged from 8500 (yellow) to 12000 (nice white) on Sanjays site depending on the ballast you used
bngowe
New member
I have only used SE MH's and have never used DE, and don't plan on switching. From what I've seen, SE are better for deeper, larger tanks. DE are much brighter, but they don't seem to spread evenly, especially for larger and deeper tanks.
and yes, going on what cthetoy said, the ballast makes a huge difference to appearance and brightness of the bulb. seems like magnetic ballast are stronger than electronic in general.
and yes, going on what cthetoy said, the ballast makes a huge difference to appearance and brightness of the bulb. seems like magnetic ballast are stronger than electronic in general.
That bulb only puts out 97 PPFD though when compared to the other bulbs I looked at using the same ballast however(Ice Cap). If you're willing to optomize the ballast to the bulb you can get alot of PAR out of many bulbs. Just to show that SE bulbs can beat the 147 you quoted, these are the values for 250 watt SE 10KK bulbs on a PFO HQI ballast:
XM 182
CV 170
Happy Reefing 170
You can get good lighting from either DE or SE, but you need to check Sanjay's numbers to make an informed decision.
As far as higher PAR being better, I don't think that (for SPS) there is any doubt that it is- up to a point. The question is whether even lower PAR bulbs already provide all the light that corals can use or not.
Allen
Keep in mind that DE lamps are designed to run off of an HQI ballast, not an electronic ballast. I think 99% of the DE 250w lamps out there will be underdriven when using an any of the available electronic ballasts on the market. An HQI ballast (M80) on a 250w SE bulb will overdrive it in most cases, however on a DE bulb it will drive it optimally at it's correct wattage. HTH
cthetoy
Active member
The HQI ballasts uses 350 watts vs 250 watts for an Ice Cap Ballast. Why not rate these bulbs at 350 watts instead? The two highest PPFD for the DE lamps are 147 and 125 (shielded) but then the CCT is only 5700 and 5288 which is very yellow. On the same HQI ballast a SE 250W XM 10k bulb has a PPFD of 182 with a CCT of 9921 so it looks like the SE is better. Even unshielded the DE did not beat the SE bulb. Divide the watts per PPFD and the SE has a higher efficiency. Electricity is expensive in Calif. so every watts count
I know lighting is not everything in keeping SPS but it is one of the most important element.
I agree the efficiency of light output without a reflector is definitely better with a SE bulb. All I was saying is that it is not a fair comparison to compare a DE bulb driven by an electronic ballast, with the SE bulb as well, when the DE is not meant to run on those particular ballasts at maximum light output. However, when you put a RO III or PFO Mini with a DE lamp, that efficiency gap definitely decreases. Lumenmax and Lumenarc reflectors are great, but they're big, and not for everyone.
I still think DE setups have by far their own niche in the hobby, as well do SE setups. I personally run SE's on most of my setups, including my sps systems.
I still think DE setups have by far their own niche in the hobby, as well do SE setups. I personally run SE's on most of my setups, including my sps systems.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
So now that you can get lumenarc DE and lumenmax 2 (de) reflectors for DE does that mean that everyone is switching back to DE? Lol. Now you can get the coverage of a wide reflector with the superior output and longevity of a DE/HQI combo.
Actually, the real reason I posted here was to ask about 400watt bulbs. Most of the ones we see are inferior probe start bulbs that barely make more output than some 250 watt DE bulbs after running for a while. DE 400s arent the high-pressure or HQI ones yet (except for a 5500K made by radium) either, so they are pointless to buy right now.
The only HQI rated 400s available are the Aquaconnect 14,000Ks, Aqualine 10,000Ks, Ushio non-CWA models, and BLV 10,000K, 14,000K, 20,000K+ and Blue Colorlite lamps. Can PA get their hands on Aquaconnects again, BLV 14,000K or 20,000Ks?
Actually, the real reason I posted here was to ask about 400watt bulbs. Most of the ones we see are inferior probe start bulbs that barely make more output than some 250 watt DE bulbs after running for a while. DE 400s arent the high-pressure or HQI ones yet (except for a 5500K made by radium) either, so they are pointless to buy right now.
The only HQI rated 400s available are the Aquaconnect 14,000Ks, Aqualine 10,000Ks, Ushio non-CWA models, and BLV 10,000K, 14,000K, 20,000K+ and Blue Colorlite lamps. Can PA get their hands on Aquaconnects again, BLV 14,000K or 20,000Ks?
NuclearReefs
Active member
I use SE's and always have,, I entertained the Idea of going to DE bulbs but kept backing out when it came down to the Money of replacing Fixtures and Reflectors and new bulbs..
Ive seen some awsome tanks with both and I think both are effective. One of the keys is to find a set up one way or another and STICK TO IT...
I remember when people used to laugh at me for using 6500K iwasaki's with VHO 03's for fill in...... those people allways wanted frags too... hmmmm.....
Im currenting running 2 XM SE 250 Watters in Parabolic reflectors over a 40 breeder with T5's Actinics filling in... Both XM's are on electronic ballast and its plenty of light.... Im getting a solid 120-125 PPFD all the way across the tank with " Hot Spots " in the center of the tank.. I CANT put corals there or they burn up ..
One day i might try DE's on a small scale.. maybe a Ice cap Pendant with the 150 watt Iwasaki's . see what i think of those.. Nice thread ! ...
Ive seen some awsome tanks with both and I think both are effective. One of the keys is to find a set up one way or another and STICK TO IT...
I remember when people used to laugh at me for using 6500K iwasaki's with VHO 03's for fill in...... those people allways wanted frags too... hmmmm.....
Im currenting running 2 XM SE 250 Watters in Parabolic reflectors over a 40 breeder with T5's Actinics filling in... Both XM's are on electronic ballast and its plenty of light.... Im getting a solid 120-125 PPFD all the way across the tank with " Hot Spots " in the center of the tank.. I CANT put corals there or they burn up ..
One day i might try DE's on a small scale.. maybe a Ice cap Pendant with the 150 watt Iwasaki's . see what i think of those.. Nice thread ! ...
prop-frags
SPS Slave
I have used both SE and DE. I switch from SE after losing a couple of bulbs to splash-breaks. I really like the peice of mind that I get from the pendant enclosures. The output is more focused, which I think benefits SPS and clams. Having said that, Joe's points are completely valid. SE fixtures give better coverage. DE fixtures give better penetration. That's my take.
clkwrk
Active member
I have been back and forth
Started SE had all SE's over my tanks .Got my first DE a hamilton 150de reefstar with internal ballast and fell in love I still own that pendant today and it covers a 2x2x2 very well and let me keep sps down at the bottom.
Next I bought some ROIII and ice caps .Love them still running them today just in higher numbers . Went from AB oceanlights with HQI ballast back to 250 SE over my softie tank and that last about 2 months before I bought 2 pfo mins for that tank. Now I run 9 DE's and 1 SE. I have had better coverage with my DE's than I ever did with my Spider reflectors and SE bulbs . Also the bulb combos I run with SE that are to my liking were all dimmer and had less par than the bulb combos I run with the DE pendants.
IMo both work but I perfer DE
Started SE had all SE's over my tanks .Got my first DE a hamilton 150de reefstar with internal ballast and fell in love I still own that pendant today and it covers a 2x2x2 very well and let me keep sps down at the bottom.
Next I bought some ROIII and ice caps .Love them still running them today just in higher numbers . Went from AB oceanlights with HQI ballast back to 250 SE over my softie tank and that last about 2 months before I bought 2 pfo mins for that tank. Now I run 9 DE's and 1 SE. I have had better coverage with my DE's than I ever did with my Spider reflectors and SE bulbs . Also the bulb combos I run with SE that are to my liking were all dimmer and had less par than the bulb combos I run with the DE pendants.
IMo both work but I perfer DE
Fliger
New member
I also use DE because aesthetics are important and I needed a sleek hood. There are only a couple nice pendants that use SE bulbs and the one I really want isn't available in the US (aquaconnect). The other one that is available here doesn't have a very good reflector (photon).
DE's became really popular in Europe where living space is premium and most tanks are very narrow. Wide spread is counterproductive on a narrow tank so DE's work much better. IME if your tank is 24" wide or more SE will work better, if its less - DE will keep the light inside your tank.
I don't really think one is better than the other, its just a matter of application.
I also agree with Jeremy - DE bulbs are designed to run with HQI ballasts so its not really a fair comparison. My Aquamedic ballasts are drawing 330W.
DE's became really popular in Europe where living space is premium and most tanks are very narrow. Wide spread is counterproductive on a narrow tank so DE's work much better. IME if your tank is 24" wide or more SE will work better, if its less - DE will keep the light inside your tank.
I don't really think one is better than the other, its just a matter of application.
I also agree with Jeremy - DE bulbs are designed to run with HQI ballasts so its not really a fair comparison. My Aquamedic ballasts are drawing 330W.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
DE bulbs are a higher-current, longer lasting bulb that put out more PAR/watt than SE. Hands down. If you want a wider spread, you can simply get a DE lumenmax3 or lumenarc DE.
Similar threads
