How Many Reefers quarantine their Fish?

[whitesquall]

Hey all, Ive been in the hobby for a long time 10+years.....

I'm sure just like alot of you, when I first started out, I used to get Marine Ick often until I learned that water parameters kept stable with good feeding habits, live stock would ussually bounce back and be ok....

But recently I received a Yellow Tang for my birthday as a gift which was bought from a local petco, and after 48-hours in my DisplayTank he developed Ick.... well I made sure my water parameters were perfect... he started to look real bad, he got real skinny stopped eating and just when I thought he was a goner.... he turned around but then my hippo got it and then my flame angel and mandarin...... and back again to the yellow tang, 48 hours after getting it the second time the yello tang died the 24-hours later the hippo died too.... now i'm watching my flame angel and manderin with digust!

I have read alot of articals on the subject.....

In the past, if I got a new fish and it developed Ick he would be the only one with it and would either succum to the parasite or it would pull through and be fine. I have never had a severe outbreak like this before...

And my question is.... HOW MANY of you REEF TANK owners ACTUALLY QUARENTINE your NEW FISH additions????

Maybe we can make this a survey and make it a sticky..

Thanks All
-Alex.

 

[Korrine]

I thought mandarins had a thick slim coat and usually don't get crypt. Maybe he was weakened in some way?

 

[bigdoug]

I am fairly new and did not at first, and lucked out until.......the infamous blue tang, it quickly spread and I lost all but 3 fish. I now qt all new fish. I don't want to deal with it again. Loosing fish is bad enough but going fallow for 10 weeks just makes it sink in that much more.

 

[travis32]

I've done a mix of QT some fish but not all. The last fish I got I QTed and glad I did, it had ich the 3 rd day in QT. I treated with hypo and it's just not coming out of hypo. NO signs of stress or issues. The OPs description sounds more like Oodinium not Ich. Oodinium spreads fast and kills extremely fast from one fish to the next. And there's little to no chance of the fish having immunity against it without treatment.

Ich has a long life cycle and usually takes longer than a few days to kill if it kills at all.. Most that I've read the fish don't die from ich unless it's a really really bad infestation.

I'd question the diagnosis that it's ich. I have a friend that lost is entire 125g in a matter of 1-2 weeks to oodinium. He quit the hobby as a result.

 

[Chris27]

Truth is....not many. I lost a good bit of fish in the beginning, and learned real fast that good water and a healthy diet only goes so far. My newest tank is a year and a half old, and every fish that has gone in has been actively QT'd with copper in a hospital tank. I have yet to have an outbreak, and I have a tank full of fat healthy fish....most of which most folks refer to as Ich magnets.

 

[ccampbell57]

I thought mandarins had a thick slim coat and usually don't get crypt. Maybe he was weakened in some way?

All fish are able to get ich. It doesnt just get in the scales, the deadly part of ich is when it gets in the gills.

Not properly Quarantining fish has a 100% chance that you will infect your tank and eventually will cause a massive issue. Reefers that tell you they have never had issues are withholding data about mysterious fish deaths and if someone tells you that they have a healthy tank without QT they are lying.

You must not only QT fish, but rock, coral, inverts, etc...EVERYTHING...

If you do this properly, there is NO way for ich or any other parasite to be in your system.

 

[wedwards]

I don't quarantine now, but if I ever have the room to do it I probably will. I personally don't think there are any cons to quarantining. Only good can come from it.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Not properly Quarantining fish has a 100% chance that you will infect your tank and eventually will cause a massive issue. Reefers that tell you they have never had issues are withholding data about mysterious fish deaths and if someone tells you that they have a healthy tank without QT they are lying.

Pretty harsh words you got there. Do you have any proof that they are lying? Any proof that if we don't QT we will get Ich 100%?


Been doing this since the 70's and have never QTed. My current 400 G tank is healthy and has been thriving for the last 6 years. I had a clown with Ich that cleared up and no other fish ever got it.

I have also been using NSW until recently when I lost my supply. I actually contribuite some of my succcess with using NSW. This is based on years of keeping fish and corals and observing them over the years.

Healthy fish and tanks along with a stress free inviroment goes a long way to not contracting Ich. Moreso than QT'ing.

Paul B has had his tank for over 40 years. Want to ask him about QTing and Ich?

 

[reefkeeper78]

So I have a question, I understand the process of QT with a bare bottom tank and no rock. Or at least I think I do... Anyway, what do you do with fish that naturally graze for food? The ones that come to mind are mandarins and lawnmower blennys. If you have no rocks or sand to graze and the QT tank is setup with water fresh made or taken from the DT during a water change there should be little to no natural food supply. I'm going by the QT tank setup that is in the new to the hobby section on here.

 

[tcmfish]

I agree with Chris.

 

[whitesquall]

OK..... So about 50/50% of people quarentine new fish, Now my next question..... If I decide to setup a quarentine setup for all my fish and treat with copper for two weeks then observe for another 6-weeks, a total of 8-weeks if I leave my Display Tank void of fish... like most of the material I have read till now suggests... Being its a Reef tank with snails,hermits,cucs,stars,shrimps and a fuge, will this parasite be able to find another host in one of the mentioned live stock or be able to stay dormant in one of them until I reintroduce my fish 8 weeks later???

-Alex.

 

[Hookup]

Not properly Quarantining fish has a 100% chance that you will infect your tank and eventually will cause a massive issue. Reefers that tell you they have never had issues are withholding data about mysterious fish deaths and if someone tells you that they have a healthy tank without QT they are lying.

You must not only QT fish, but rock, coral, inverts, etc...EVERYTHING...

If you do this properly, there is NO way for ich or any other parasite to be in your system.

Chris,
At very least a bold statement that you've made, at worse it would be insulting.

Only one question. "Who has done this properly?"

 

[Korrine]

Not many! I'll have a spare 75g and a spare 29g so I fully intend to QT everything. I also have a spare Halide yay!

 

[ccampbell57]

Pretty harsh words you got there. Do you have any proof that they are lying? Any proof that if we don't QT we will get Ich 100%?


Been doing this since the 70's and have never QTed. My current 400 G tank is healthy and has been thriving for the last 6 years. I had a clown with Ich that cleared up and no other fish ever got it.

I have also been using NSW until recently when I lost my supply. I actually contribuite some of my succcess with using NSW. This is based on years of keeping fish and corals and observing them over the years.

Healthy fish and tanks along with a stress free inviroment goes a long way to not contracting Ich. Moreso than QT'ing.

Paul B has had his tank for over 40 years. Want to ask him about QTing and Ich?

The success of the few is FAR FAR FAR outweighed by the majority that have lost everything due to disease and parasites that could have easily been taken care of through proper QT.

You ask anyone out there that has high end expensive fish (myself included) about their QT procedure and I bet you there is not a one that does not QT. In fact, I had Julian Sprung and Matt Wandell over the other week and they ALL agree with me on QT.

How do you know you have a healthy fish? When you pop it into a tank and let it fend for itself, even if it is a healthy fish, the catching, shipping and acclimation process is VERY stressful and leads to the demise of many fish that were previously healthy.

Lets say for example my fish that come from Japan are caught on a Monday morning...they are bagged and put on a ship and brought to port Monday night. They are placed in holding tanks and re-oxygenated and observed. All the healthy fish are shipped out as soon as possible...say Tuesday night. Once it is shipped to the US it is about 24-36 hours before it lands in the Wholesalers tanks. So lets say best case scenario the fish arrive in LA on Thursday night. they are again put in holding tanks and observed. It has been over 4 days and the fish has not fed properly, the water levels may have fluxuated considerably and the overall stress level of the fish is pretty high. They fish may or may not eat at this point...who knows, but again only the healthiest "looking" fish are shipped out.

Now the fish is shipped out on Friday to a retailer...it arrives saturday and the acclimation process starts to keep the fish alive and ready to sell...by the time you put the fish in you tank it may have been in transport for over a week or more and through MANY systems where it could have picked up a multitude of diseases, bacteria, or parasites.

Then you add it to your already established fish tank with many fish that have been there for a long time and their routine is well known. The food that is fed is known and this new fish is weak, out of place, and last in line. There is no possible way it can "Thrive". It is a dump and hope mentality and this is why you see so many threads about their fish not eating and hiding in rocks never to come out.

Here is a true example of how QT works. I sold my Scribbled angel to reefer in NJ and he has ich in his DT...my fish was QT'd for over 2 months with Copper and prazi and it was bulletproof. Once the fish was shipped from Colorado, I had no problem with the fish going into a tank with Ich and other issues because I knew that the fish was conditioned to take on anything. As expected the fish broke out in ich, but recovered very quickly and is in perfect condition...there was no ill effect of the ich other than the site of the parasites. Any other fish I would have said it was a gonner.

Again there are a few exceptions, and good water quality and aggression have a lot to do with it, but those examples are few and far between.

I salute you for having a healthy tank and being able to dodge the bullets of having your tanks up for a long time without QT. It is a testament to your husbandry and overall care for the hobby and the livestock. However, people like you, Paul B, myself and other is in the far minority and we should always encourage and in my case (expect) people to QT as it is the only way to ensure healthy happy fish...otherwise it is a crap shoot.

 

[briankmarsh1980]

I used to never QT and all my fish had ich they were healthy and happy never lost a fish....
NOW after I did a tank reset due to red turf... all fish now go into QT for 2 months going through a treatment of several meds before going into my DT. I QT everything now inverts corals rocks whatever is WET.... so I know my DT is ich free...

on the other hand, like I said before when I never QTed I never lost fish......
now that I do QT I lose fish in the QT process
it's nice to know my DT is ich free, but it sure sucks to lose fish trying to make sure they get healthy and have a disease/parasite free life

 

[snorvich]

Have those that do not quarantine ever heard of oodinium? Also, everyone should read Cryptocaryon Irritans

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

I guess I'm in the minority. Maybe it's the process I take in picking out my fish in that I observer them for some thime before purchasing them. Maybe it's just the fish stores I frequent. maybe it's because the wholesalers are near by (less than 100 miles from my area) and the LFS go there to pick up there fish. Maybe it's something in the NSW that I use instead of mixing ASW. I don't know. But I do agree with you that husbandry has a lot to do with a fish's health and being able to fight of deasies, not just going into QT.

As for expensive fish, well I don't know what the price would be, I was told about 5K for the pair if they bred, but I had my large, ie 12"+ naso tangs doing the mateing dance in my tank. Was working on breeding them when I lost them due to a tripped GFCI and loss of all my pumps and skimmers. I also had a bair of Bellus Angles that were mating as well. I would think that would be a sign of happy fish. Currently I have a breeding pair of clowns and am working on a pair of yellow headed sleeper gobies. So I guess everyone is still happy.

I have never met nor had any conversations with Mr. Sprung or Mr. Wandell so I won't comment on them. But I have had conversations with other noted "experts" who tryed to convince me that my tank would crash because I used NSW or did this or the other so I don't hold much high reguard to the "experts" as some do. Paul B could probably tell you some of the same. Sorry.

 

[Hookup]

Chris,
I don't think you could be more clear or accurate with your account of how fish typically arrive in stressed conditions and I also believe the same or similar to be true.

However you imply and state that QT is the only way to ensure healthy happy fish, which is a challenge for me. I'm not sure how fish health and happiness is quantified and scaled but qualitatively I think there are many fish that were not QT'd and are healthy and happy.

I've no problems with people who want to QT and do it right. More power to you and my hat is off... It takes a tremendous effort to QT everything and the specialized equipment required for corals, big-fish, hypo treatments, etc, etc. The sqr footage alone is significant.

Understand though, that the level of effort for proper QT is beyond the return for most of us.

My point is, that there are many people, myself included, who have multi-year fish that were never QT'd, even ones from the Caribbean no less. This of course does NOT in any way dis-prove the need for QT, but it does demonstrate that without QT'ing, you can have healthy and happy fish.

 

[BrianD]

My point is, that there are many people, myself included, who have multi-year fish that were never QT'd, even ones from the Caribbean no less. This of course does NOT in any way dis-prove the need for QT, but it does demonstrate that without QT'ing, you can have healthy and happy fish.

My hepatus is 12 or so years old. My sailfin tang is about 6. I also have a flame angel and a golden angel (both in captivity 4+ years).

I also have a mysteri wrasse, pajama cardinals, etc etc.

None were quarantined. I don't argue (and wouldn't argue) that quarantine isn't a great idea. I do argue that it is the only way you can have a disease free tank.

 

[BrianD]

Not properly Quarantining fish has a 100% chance that you will infect your tank and eventually will cause a massive issue. Reefers that tell you they have never had issues are withholding data about mysterious fish deaths and if someone tells you that they have a healthy tank without QT they are lying.
.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with this.