How this Geezer did it in the beginning
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Paul B
Premium Member
I eat much more clams than oysters as they are much cheaper, but if I could afford it, I would eat oysters for breakfast, with my Cheerios.
I don't feel bad about eating clams in front of my fish, as they also get clams every day. But I do feel guilty about eating clams in front of my clams. :facepalm:
glstine1966
New member
Hi Paul, read your thread on the 35 year old tank and am now almost done with this one. I just thought of something when reading about your feeding regiment. I watched some documentaries about raw foods and nutrition. Dr. Gersen believed that if people ate correctly to obtain the proper nutrition, they would not get sick, develop cancer and so on. The Gersen center uses nutritional therapy to treat cancer and according to the movies have had great success. Oddly, nutritional therapy is illegal in the US. I think you are correct in your theories.
Just wanted to share that and let you know I love the stories about fish, Vietnam (thank you for your service, my uncle was a fighter pilot over there) and life in general. Real life is always more interesting than fiction.
Just wanted to share that and let you know I love the stories about fish, Vietnam (thank you for your service, my uncle was a fighter pilot over there) and life in general. Real life is always more interesting than fiction.
Paul B
Premium Member
Glstine, thank you. I appreciate it.
That was a long thread you read, most of it was not even about fish.
Human nutrition and fish nutrition are two very different things as I am sure you and Dr. Gersen know. We are no where near as dependant on food for our health as fish are as we can sit in front of a TV for years drinking beer and eating potato chips and still "spawn" Fish can not as nutrition plays a much more important role in them than us. A fishes spawn could be almost half the weight of the fish and many fish could spawn every couple of months. Those eggs are mostly oil and the fish needs to produce all that oil in a few weeks to be able to produce eggs. Flakes or pellets won't do it in most fish. Also spawning fish are very healthy and disease resistant. Humans get sick no matter what we eat, but fish, for some reason became immune from most things including paracites if fed correctly enough to get that fish in spawning mode. Many people resist that notion and don't feed right which is why there are so many people posting about diseases. It's all about the food.
References:
Me
That was a long thread you read, most of it was not even about fish.
Human nutrition and fish nutrition are two very different things as I am sure you and Dr. Gersen know. We are no where near as dependant on food for our health as fish are as we can sit in front of a TV for years drinking beer and eating potato chips and still "spawn" Fish can not as nutrition plays a much more important role in them than us. A fishes spawn could be almost half the weight of the fish and many fish could spawn every couple of months. Those eggs are mostly oil and the fish needs to produce all that oil in a few weeks to be able to produce eggs. Flakes or pellets won't do it in most fish. Also spawning fish are very healthy and disease resistant. Humans get sick no matter what we eat, but fish, for some reason became immune from most things including paracites if fed correctly enough to get that fish in spawning mode. Many people resist that notion and don't feed right which is why there are so many people posting about diseases. It's all about the food.
References:
Me
glstine1966
New member
Dr. Gersen believed that if people received the proper nutrition they would not get sick. I have no idea if there is any credence to that. Cancer rates have increased as the amount of processed foods we eat have increased, coincidence? I really have no idea at all I'm not a doctor or nutritionist or anything, I just watched some documentaries on the subject. Anyhow, I just thought it was an interesting parallel to your thoughts that proper nutrition prevents your fish from getting sick.
Looking forward to hearing more of your stories. Have a fantastic day.
Looking forward to hearing more of your stories. Have a fantastic day.
It is one reason why some say breast feeding is important if one can do it. Processed foods are bad and you don't need a upper level degree to figure that out
Look at our parents and then theirs. They drank like a fish, smoked, and still manage to live well into their 80's. What else did they have in common? Movement. They woke up early, milked cows, gathered eggs, plowed the fields, and even walked to school. I don't know, but do the math...I'll go a step further that say it doesn't help when some countries focus on immunization and others don't. I won't go down the rat hole of immigration but it is another hot point in the medical industry that we see daily.
Oh, I just reread this and it sounded snotty. That was not my intent, I'm sorry.
glstine1966
New member
No worries, I used a very simplistic example. Obviously there is a lot more to it or it would have been a 20 second commercial instead of multiple hour plus documentaries (very compelling stuff, I think everyone should watch them). I just thought it was an interesting analogy to Paul's thoughts on fish nutrition.
Paul B
Premium Member
I don't know Dr. Gersen but I believe he is wrong and you can tell him that I said so.
(If he is bigger than me, don't give him my real name)
We (or most of us) are warm blooded creatures and have a totally different immune system than fish. Fish slime carries immunity from many disease invaders including paracites, most of us humans do not exude slime, although I once dated a girl in Colorado who resembled a flounder, she wasn't slimy though. But a real good swimmer.
Anyway, our immune system works mainly through our blood where as a fish immune system works in it's entire body and outside it in their slime.
Fish are exposed to more toxins than we are due to the fact that they are in water and every mineral on earth is in our oceans. What ever is in the air, is also in the water so fish evolved to be resistant to these malady's.
Whenever I go to Mexico, I get sick, And I never get sick. Mexican people don't get sick. In Viet Nam I had to take an anti malaria pill every day, the Vietnamese people didn't normally get malaria. That is because they are exposed to it from birth and we Americans are only exposed to things like Mrs Pauls Fish Sticks and Hamburger Helper. We are inoculated for everything else. Plus our diet will not protect us from infection no matter what Dr. Gersen thinks.
For some reason that I don't know (and I don't know a lot of things) fish in breeding condition do not get sick. In Dr. Gersens defense there is some evidence that pregnant women are more immune from some diseases and some seem to get better from things like MS for instance. The immunity lapses when she gives birth. No one knows why.
But as I said, fish are different and a good diet that gets the fish into breeding condition will help the fish become immune from everything
(except being put into one of those Mrs Pauls fish sticks)
Speaking of fish sticks, I just came back from a county funded Veterans BarBeCue. There were thousands of Vets there and it was free. I was very proud to be there among so many Hero's who fought and protected this country, from WW2 to Korea to Viet Nam to the Middle East. They were all there and some of the WW2 guys were barely able to move around. They had carts to help them from their car to the event as the place is huge.
I met one on my Nam buddies there and we shared some war stories.
It was typical military though and they must had some military people organize it. They had about 7 tables where you could get hamburgers or hot dogs, then about 100 yards away there was one lone table that had the ketchup, mustard and sour kraut. Then 100 yards in the other direction there was one table and one guy serving beer to the 3 or 4,000 people there.
Then there was a table from "Panera" a large bread and pastry company.
There was a huge line for that and I walked to the front of the line to see what they had. The event just opened maybe 20 minutes before and they ran out of food. Someone went someplace for more. An hour later when I left, they were still waiting for that stuff to come back.
But it was free and a great event so I can't complain. I can use some days without dessert anyway. :beer:
glstine1966
New member
Since his daughter runs the center now and she looks to be around 80, that might be a little difficult. He might come haunt you though.
I didn't mean to imply that human and fish immune systems were similar. Nor am I an advocate for the Gersen method (if you saw what I had for breakfast and lunch today, you'd be surprised I'm not dead). I just thought the analogy somewhat reinforced your statements on correct nutrition being so important for fish (or humans or elephants or Paris Hilton's dog).
Ok, back to your stories, I just didn't want you (or the entire internet) thinking I was trying to compare fish to humans. :wildone:
Paul B
Premium Member
I know it wasn't you, I was referring to the Dr's theory on human health and then like always I went off on a tangent. I am also not sure what keeps Paris Hiltons dog healthy, if it is in fact healthy or if in fact, it is really a dog.
Don't worry about the entire internet, no one reads this stuff and certainly not "this" thread anyway. :uhoh3:
Don't worry about the entire internet, no one reads this stuff and certainly not "this" thread anyway. :uhoh3:
reeftanknewbie
New member
Paul,
Got a good laugh out of your description of the vet function. Its soooo military and typical. Glad there were a mixed group of vets there. I have been meaning to look for and attend a few myself. I love clams too and feel no guilt for eating thwm in front of my tank while they eat mysis shrimp and nori.
Got a good laugh out of your description of the vet function. Its soooo military and typical. Glad there were a mixed group of vets there. I have been meaning to look for and attend a few myself. I love clams too and feel no guilt for eating thwm in front of my tank while they eat mysis shrimp and nori.
Paul B
Premium Member
This Veteran pic nic was I think for all of Long Island where about 7 million people live so there are a lot of Vets. In a few weeks my town offers a free Veteran Breakfast. In the 40+ years since I got out of the Military I never remember them ever doing anything for Veterans, it is nice that they are recognized now.
I know my unit that I served in Nam with have a re union every year, but it is always way out west someplace and I never attended. They even have one for the survivors of this large battle I was in but that is also way out west, and I live way over here in New York. Some day I think I would like to go as we are dying off now and there are not to many left from that day.
There is a book coming out about that day in Nam and I think it comes out this month. It is called "Fire Support Base Illingsworth". I think I am in it but I don't know as I have not received the book yet. I am looking forward to reading it even if I am not in it as I still am not sure what happened as there was no internet then.
If I am in it, it won't be in any great capacity as I didn't do anything heroic.
I probably screamed a lot, I don't remember.
The book is at the end of this link, I ordered it last year and hope to get it soon.
http://www.commandposts.com/2013/04/april-1-1970-fire-base-illingworth-hell-on-earth/
I know my unit that I served in Nam with have a re union every year, but it is always way out west someplace and I never attended. They even have one for the survivors of this large battle I was in but that is also way out west, and I live way over here in New York. Some day I think I would like to go as we are dying off now and there are not to many left from that day.
There is a book coming out about that day in Nam and I think it comes out this month. It is called "Fire Support Base Illingsworth". I think I am in it but I don't know as I have not received the book yet. I am looking forward to reading it even if I am not in it as I still am not sure what happened as there was no internet then.
If I am in it, it won't be in any great capacity as I didn't do anything heroic.
I probably screamed a lot, I don't remember.
The book is at the end of this link, I ordered it last year and hope to get it soon.
http://www.commandposts.com/2013/04/april-1-1970-fire-base-illingworth-hell-on-earth/
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reeftanknewbie
New member
Very cool. I am going to pick up the book myself. Yes you should plan to get out there and go to the reunion. I didn't serve with a unit but was attached to several. No reunion for me...lmao
Paul-
It is always good to see a humble person, there are so few of them today. I also read your posts, I have subscribed to most of them so I will not miss any of your new posts. Right now I am trying to figure out the logistics to build an algae trough for my tank so I can be just like you.
It is always good to see a humble person, there are so few of them today. I also read your posts, I have subscribed to most of them so I will not miss any of your new posts. Right now I am trying to figure out the logistics to build an algae trough for my tank so I can be just like you.
Do I need to be naturally bald, or can I just shave my hair off? Either way, I will be bald eventually, all the older males in my family are.
reeftanknewbie
New member
Second a great guy with lots of good morals, values and wisdom to share. Bald is the easy part.
A plate of oysters overlooking the ocean, with what looks like a Sam Adams beer.....talk of Paris Hilton (think she has a tank?)........I know I am in the right forum. Here is one of the places I get my NSW. Do you use exclusively NSW? Also, how much/often do you do water changes? Can you also discuss water flow in you tank that you have found to be the best? I assume through the years you have had different setups and different flow rates. I know you use a RUGF, but what about powerheads? Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
Tom
Tom
Paul B
Premium Member
Doctorvu, there is a 100+ page thread on here that discusses all of that and I don't want to bore people to much with it again but I will go over the basics.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711320
I think that beer was Sam Adams, either that or Montauk Ale but it could have been Land Shark I don't remember. The oysters were local.
As for my tank, it has remained unclanged since about 1979 when I moved and took everything from my 40 gallon and transfered it to this 100 gallon.
Of course the lighting was changed from whale oil lamps to incandescent bulbs to flourescent, to VHO to MH, then to LEDs. It was started with NSW and I would use all NSW but it gets heavier every year so it is mostly ASW which is fake water. I will try to collect some water next week. I change about 20% of the water about 5 times a year but I have no set schedule. There are two powerheads on the tank, one on either end. You mentioned the reverse UG filter which is the heart of the system and I would not think of setting up a tank without one. There is some maintenance, once or twice a year I use a diatom filter and stir up the gravel where I can reach. Before SPS started growing all over the place I would remove some of the larger rocks to makle that easier, but the SPS make that difficult and I break them all the time.
The large skimmer is home made as are the LEDs and ATO which is gravity fed from another room after going through a RO and home made DI. I have an exhaust fan over the tank to vent moisture outside in the summer.
Food is all natural, nothing processed, it consists of live blackworms, live whiteworms, live newborn brine shrimp (for the tiny fish and mandarins) and fresh clams which I freeze. I also feed mysis.
It is a simple set up with no dosers or controllers.
A few weeks ago I built and installed a Bio Pellet reactor just for an experiment, I don't know how long I will run it as it was just for fun, and I like to have fun as this is a hobby and for me, not that serious. I have had a tank of some kind continousely for 60 years and for me it is not a hobby but a way of life. It gives me something to do on days when there is nothing to do but I don't have to do anything in it if I have something else I want to do.
I don't personally know Miss Hilton but I have met quite a few Supermodels when I was still working. That is the only part of my job I miss. So now I look at hermit crabs. And my Grand daughter
She sometimes helps me with the plumbing
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711320
I think that beer was Sam Adams, either that or Montauk Ale but it could have been Land Shark I don't remember. The oysters were local.
As for my tank, it has remained unclanged since about 1979 when I moved and took everything from my 40 gallon and transfered it to this 100 gallon.
Of course the lighting was changed from whale oil lamps to incandescent bulbs to flourescent, to VHO to MH, then to LEDs. It was started with NSW and I would use all NSW but it gets heavier every year so it is mostly ASW which is fake water. I will try to collect some water next week. I change about 20% of the water about 5 times a year but I have no set schedule. There are two powerheads on the tank, one on either end. You mentioned the reverse UG filter which is the heart of the system and I would not think of setting up a tank without one. There is some maintenance, once or twice a year I use a diatom filter and stir up the gravel where I can reach. Before SPS started growing all over the place I would remove some of the larger rocks to makle that easier, but the SPS make that difficult and I break them all the time.
The large skimmer is home made as are the LEDs and ATO which is gravity fed from another room after going through a RO and home made DI. I have an exhaust fan over the tank to vent moisture outside in the summer.
Food is all natural, nothing processed, it consists of live blackworms, live whiteworms, live newborn brine shrimp (for the tiny fish and mandarins) and fresh clams which I freeze. I also feed mysis.
It is a simple set up with no dosers or controllers.
A few weeks ago I built and installed a Bio Pellet reactor just for an experiment, I don't know how long I will run it as it was just for fun, and I like to have fun as this is a hobby and for me, not that serious. I have had a tank of some kind continousely for 60 years and for me it is not a hobby but a way of life. It gives me something to do on days when there is nothing to do but I don't have to do anything in it if I have something else I want to do.
I don't personally know Miss Hilton but I have met quite a few Supermodels when I was still working. That is the only part of my job I miss. So now I look at hermit crabs. And my Grand daughter
She sometimes helps me with the plumbing
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