How this Geezer did it in the beginning

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Now I know some countries are large and not every one lives by the sea, (although I don't know why not :D) and I can't help that but the stuff should be sold, not in a bottle because that is just silly, but in a bag like fish come in. Just a small bag of mud, great invention. No one would buy it but me, and I don't need it but if someone ever sells mud from the sea in a bag, buy it.

I only make it to the Texas coast a few times a year, and only recently figured out where/how I can harvest some goodies without getting hurt or in trouble. I plan on stocking up on some snails and (feeder) shrimp, maybe a flower anemone if I'm lucky and brave. I was scared to try the mud for bacteria, though.

If a tank has always had local mud added to it, it's probably going to be fine. But what if the tank has always been a typical bought-from-the-store variety? Would introducing a totally different kind of bacteria cause competition issues, problems?

I also have pretty sand, and Corpus does not. You mentioned earlier that just putting the stuff in a cup for a while is sufficient?
 
Wow, took a few days off here to do some tank maint.( water change and equitment cleaning, yes, with bleach as I have always done) and work a little, and this thread grew like the weeds in my back yard!!
Happy Memorial day to all that served, from HM1 (AWSW) Scott
Paul, wow, reading about the early days really makes one wonder if you shoulda been a marine biologist, huh..... maybe when you grow up right? Lol

Oh waite, forgot about the whole Peter Pan thing, I have the same desire to never grow up.
 
I can't help that but the stuff should be sold, not in a bottle because that is just silly, but in a bag like fish come in. Just a small bag of mud, great invention. No one would buy it but me, and I don't need it but if someone ever sells mud from the sea in a bag, buy it.

ipsf.com does this, and I've bought it before!
 
Over the years we have transported many things from a beach in S. Carolina to Indiana with much success. We have brought several of the purple urchins back as well, they are my favorite but they do require alot of algea! I would love to have one again but we don't have the algea to sustain one long term. We will continue to enjoy them on vacation instead. I also really like the hermit crabs that was in your photo. Some of the hermits get too aggressive, but that species seem to do well in our tanks. They are funny because they scramble all around. My husband (aka coralsurfer) calls them popcorn crabs because they jump wildly around to catch the food. I QT everything from the LFS but have never QT anything directly from the ocean and we have never had a problem with disease or illness. We've brought critters, shells, small pieces of rock, and some sand home. I have never brought mud home before but I like your thoughts on bacteria. I think the next trip we may have to bring a bag of mud home;) We are hoping in a few years to be able to move to the east coast. When the time comes I would love to have a tank with the local marine life. It is so much fun collecting and watching things grow. I envy you being so close to the ocean.

BTW--I enjoy all of your threads. I enjoy your writing style and your thoughts on the hobby. Have a great Memorial Day.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with you and your thought process. people should do their own thing with this hobby. I work in a fish store and deal with varying opinions on a daily basis and have come to the conclusion "if it's not broke don't fix it". if you're enjoying this hobby and have been in it for a while then you're doing it right. Paul i hope you get that book published cuz i'd love to read it!
 
But I want to pay attention to that...and it seems nothing is really OT in this thread. I've seen a few people buying these new lately. Is it an "original", or a newer purchase?

I installed that whole house vacuum many years ago, And I have 3 floors (including the finished basement.) There is absolutely no maintenance except for about every 2 years to empty the bag, The bag holds about 7 gallons of dust and my wife vacuums like twice a day. We have outlets all over the place and a 36' vacuum hose with a powerhead that doesn't weigh anything. The thing is very powerful because it is a big motor that you don't have to carry around. I don't know why everyone don't have one.

Have you given any thought to how/why it is that cold water bacteria is surviving in your tank... or if it even is? I mean, its possible only the stuff that can handle the warmer water is making it... Just interested in your thoughts on it, not in challenging your thoughts on it.
You can challenge my thoughts all you want, I am not always right.
I collect that mud in a tide pool where it goes from about 35 degrees in the winter to about 90 in the summer, the bacteria don't seem to care about the temperature or salinity as it also goes from full salt water to almost fresh because it is fed during low tide from a lake. These are Man bacteria, not Sissy bacteria from the tropics where the temp and salinity is the same all year. So that is my thoughts on that. :)

I'm still not sure why I don't use NSW in my tank. I live 15min. from Cocoa Beach, so collecting it would be easy, though transporting 30-35 gallons might get my backseat wet

I don't know why either. Do any of your fish come from fake water? I drive 30 minutes to get water, and yesterday I drove 80 miles to get it. I transport it in those 5 gallon water cooler bottles, I just bungee them in my car.

If a tank has always had local mud added to it, it's probably going to be fine. But what if the tank has always been a typical bought-from-the-store variety? Would introducing a totally different kind of bacteria cause competition issues, problems?
I don't know, try it, what could happen? Global warming? Eruption of Mt Vesuviuos? Paris hilton would get a new dog?
There are many things I don't know, hundreds in fact. :crazy1:
 
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Happy Memorial day to all that served, from HM1 (AWSW) Scott
Paul,
Thank You Coral Surfer, same to you.

could u elaborate on how u prepare and store the worms you feed?

Sometimes I read to them and sometimes I just try to console them that it won't be too bad when they get eaten. After all, they are worms.
So that is about all you have to do to prepare them.
To keep them, I built a worm keeper.
It is described on here quite a few times.
I am sure it is also on my tank thread here
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711320
Wormkeeper008.jpg
 
I enjoy your writing style and your thoughts on the hobby. Have a great Memorial Day.

Thank you, I actually write this on my monitor in script using red crayon and my secretary (who is a real babe, I think she is a retired Supermodel) types it for me.

And Shells, you also have a great Memorial Day.
I actually forgot today to put my American Flag at half mast. While I was out in my boat and there was military parades and celebrations, I noticed all the flags at half mast. I am usually very good at that and I am embarassed that my flag was all the way up. I also have my POW flag and my unit flag which was the First Cav.
So when I came home I ran to correct my stupidity.

Collecting in a tide pool.

mini-pod20trip20007.jpg
 
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I suppose the fear of the unknown is what keeps me from doing it
There is nothing to fear but fear itself. Dam, I wish I coined that statement.

You can add amphipods, snails, crabs and shrimp all you want as long as you feel they won't eat your fish or dog.
Amphipods are another animal that don't care about temperature. I collect them under the ice and in a 90 degree tide pool. I am sure they are the same amphipods because I don't see a lot of them flying up on Jet Blue to spend the summers here.
You can also use saltwater from any ocean in the world. The water has been mixing for at least, oh I don't know, a billion years. Here in NY I have to add a little salt and of course heat it up a little, but it is salt water, nothing special, just common seawater, the stuff that is the most common stuff in the world. It will not hurt your tank. ASW may hurt your tank because it is fake. If you are scared of paracites, bacteria, red tide or Godzilla, then keep it for a few weeks or heat it to 98 degrees. But don't boil it. For some reason boiled seawater is no good, I don't know why something about chemicals changing, but Randy is the scientist, I am an electrician.
You can also do the Clorox thing but I don't want to know about it because you will probably screw it up and blame me. People already blame me for all sorts of things including global warming and mis guiding Noobs. All Noobs, get off of this thread, you have no business here and will be mis guided.

thank you so much.
Your writings inspire me and lots of others.
Thank You John, usually people tell me that my writing just gives them gas. :facepalm:
 
Paul... silly question maybe... but I hear in the olden days bleached dead corals and fish were the 'style' but surely someone must have left those in long enough to become live and actually start to maintain corals. Did you keep corals back when it wasn't possible? There had to be some lazy sod who didn't keep his corals bleached enough...
 
Paul... silly question maybe... but I hear in the olden days bleached dead corals and fish were the 'style' but surely someone must have left those in long enough to become live and actually start to maintain corals. Did you keep corals back when it wasn't possible? There had to be some lazy sod who didn't keep his corals bleached enough...

I second this. I have s.helves of exotic corals I used to pull and bleach.
 
People already blame me for all sorts of things including global warming and mis guiding Noobs. All Noobs, get off of this thread, you have no business here and will be mis guided.

@#$%^@. Every day I learn reinforcing how much of a noob I am, as you said oceans are a few billions years old. Is anyone with less than a few hundred things to learn a noob? :spin1:

Could you talk more about Paris Hilton and your affection for her?
 
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Rock on Paul! I love your threads. I get more education from listening to you than I do anywhere else I think.
 
Paul... silly question maybe... but I hear in the olden days bleached dead corals and fish were the 'style' but surely someone must have left those in long enough to become live and actually start to maintain corals. Did you keep corals back when it wasn't possible? There had to be some lazy sod who didn't keep his corals bleached enough...
Did you ever see vintage photographs from the 1800s? Did you ever see anyone smiling? It was just not done. Just like letting corals go green was not done. Remember no one at the time even saw dead corals and the look of bleached corals was a unique, beautiful thing to see. It was just so different and there was no talk about conservation, it was a word we never heard. Most of those dead corals were found washed up on a beach or collected in shallow water with a snorkel.
I saw dead bleached corals in Jamaica piled up for 100 yeard to sell to tourists. :eek1:
Remember, there also were no live corals for sale and our nitrates in our dim tanks were probably 300
We also didn't know about bacteria, Robert Straughn the Father of salt water keeping wrote a book that I still have and I don't think he mentions bacteria even though he advocated UG filters. He thought of them as mechanical filters and never mentions live rock.
He does mention anemone rocks to purify water. Anemone rock was live rock with aiptasia on it and he assumed the aiptasia somehow conditioned the water.
Can you imagine, we looked for aiptasia to put in our tanks but the wierd part was that we could not keep the aiptasia alive. How good were we? :crazy1:

@#$%^@. Every day I learn reinforcing how much of a noob I am, as you said oceans are a few billions years old. Is anyone with less than a few hundred things to learn a noob?

If you think you are a Noob and you post that you are a Noob, and you feel like a Noob, then guess what? You are a Noob. :D

I love your threads. I get more education from listening to you than I do anywhere else I think.

Thank you but education is a two way street, not all education is correct. Don't just listen to me. Maybe you should not listen at all to me. My methods are not exactly main streem and I am sure the majority of hobbiests disagree with me and wish that I would just go away. I will if they pay my trip to say, Bora Bora, I just love that place. ;)

Could you talk more about Paris Hilton and your affection for her?

Paris Who?

paris-hilton-001.jpg
 
Ok....it is killing me, so I have to ask. I am sure that this is the thing that you get yelled at the most on here about, but......What is your experience/perception on ICH???

I know that QT/prevenative treatment on any new arrivals is the only way to prevent introducing Ich into your tank and there are only three ways to treat/erradicate Ich and to leave a tank fallow for like 6 months now to let the paracite run its course. Any questions regarding Ich should be referred to the "stickies."

Now that we got the disclaimers out of the way....let me have it! Your view on Ich! You can PM me if you like...don't want to get you kicked off the site, I look forward to following this thread.
 
I am sure that this is the thing that you get yelled at the most on here about, but......What is your experience/perception on ICH???

Yes it is true, this is where the so called "experts" have a problem with me and I did put this on here many many times.
I am old and I have been dealing with ich in my tank, dealer's tanks and wholesalers tanks for decades and I am not a Noob, that is the last guy who posted.
First let me start with this. Ich is a paracite similar to a malaria paracite. When I was in Viet Nam I had to take an anti malaria pill every day and a big one on mondays, if I did not take that pill I was farily sure I would get malaria. The Vietnamese people didn't get malaria and they had no pills and lived in the jungle all of their lives, why is that?
Also I have been to Mexico a few times and I always get disentary and I am very healthy and never even get a cold. I almost never get sick but in Mexico I always do. The Mexican people don't walk around with disentary all day long, why is that?
Because they are immune.
So we determined that people at least can become somewhat immune from paracites.
I believe fish can also. Now why do I believe that?
As you know my tank is old and if you read this thread you know that I add mud, flounders, eels, crabs, snails, seaweed, sponge, anemones and fish from every LFS in NY and have been doing so for decades so shouldn't my fish have ich? No really?
Should my fireclown be 18 years old? Should the rest of my fish be over ten years old including an ich magnet Hippo tang?
Then why are they still alive? Here is where the "experts" are at a loss for words. They say I am lucky and one day all of my fish will die from ich. Really! When will that be? When the tank is fifty? or sixty?
I mean really!
So here is my theory (and it is only a theory) A fish has a fantastic immune system. It has to be fantastic because everything that is in the water is in the blood stream of the fish. We just have to be concerned with what is in the air but bacteria "and" paracites are almost in epidemic proportions in water as compared to air.
But unlike us a fishes immune system is completely dependant on food for it's capacity to protect the fish. We can eat potato chips and drink beer for decades and lay around doing nothing (like many people here) and not get sick. We can even re produce if we are on our death bed and ready to croak. A fish can not. There is a reason for that.
We as humans have one or two babies at a time. The baby starts out as a tiny cell and the Mother doesn't even know she is pregnant because the fetus is so tiny and didn't take hardly any energy to make it. A fish on the other hand has hundreds or thousands of babies and those eggs are all formed at the same time. If you have ever filleted a fish with eggs you will notice that the eggs could take up about half of the fishes weight. It is a huge burden on a fish to have offspring and would be equivilent to a
150lb human Mother having a 77lb baby and having one every month or two. See what I mean?
So I proved that fish are a little different from us. A fish has to be in the best condition it can be in to grow that many eggs and while it is in that great condition, it's "Immune" system is also in great condition and it will protect the fish from almost anything, but the fish must be in spawning condition for that to happen. The eggs of a fish which can be about half the weight of the fish are mostly oil. Yes fish oil. When fish are born they have a yoke sack which is much larger then the fish and it is mostly oil.
Bear with me, we are almost there. Where does the fish get this oil? Well it can make some of it but it is much easier for the fish to make oil if it has oil to start with, so what does a fish do? It eats a large portion of it's diet as baby fish or whole fish.
If you dive, watch the fish. There are fry all over the place near the base of rocks, that is where fish get food from. It is like a candy store. Ever hear that of the millions of eggs a tuna lays only 2 or 3 live to adulthood? Guess what happened to the rest of those millions of tuna? Fish ate them.
OK so I feel if we can get enough of the correct foods into fish that contain oil, they will get into breeding condition and be immune from most things including ich.
(OK experts you can yell at me know and tell me how lucky I am)
There are a few ways to feed fish correctly. Shrimp, fish fillets, squid and scallop is "NOT" the way. Those foods while all good lack oil. They are just the muscle that we like to eat, but we are not fish. Fish need the guts and the bones. The guts is where the oil and almost all the other nutrients are.
A fishes liver is about a quarter oil so a 100lb shark can be 25lbs of oil. 25 pounds. Fish oil is missing from almost all commercially sold foods because it goes bad, even if frozen.
You can feed live worms as in blackworms as I do and I also feed whole clams, or fish eggs and mysis. All of those foods contain the whole animal. Tiny fish would be great but they are hard to come by. I have spoken to "Ocean Nutrition " about that. What we need is tiny frozen whole fish about the size of mysis.
So if you can feed whole foods and if your fish start to either spawn or at least exhibit spawning behaviour, then they are as healthy as they can be and "should" be immune but I will not guarantee it. This is my theory and it works and makes sense to me.
If your fish are prone to ich, I feel IMO that your fish are not very healthy, not in spawning condition and are not eating correctly.
A guy on another forum was practically screaming at me for that statement telling me that his fish are fat and "happy".
I said to him that I had a few fat and happy friends who are now dead.:facepalm:

Remember, my theories, not yours. Noobs, go away. If any of anyone's tank crashes due to ich I will disavow any rememberance of this post or this forum in general. I never heard of you.
This post will self destruct in 30 seconds...............................................................POOF:uhoh2:

See the fry to the left of the nurse shark in the picture my dive partner took in the Caymans? That is a good portion of a fishes diet.

Nurse_Shark.jpg
 
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Paul and i disagree on this, but that doesn't mean i don't resppect his opinion or experience.
the thing i haven't quite been able to follow here is that regardless of where i have bought a fish, i would not consider it to be in the "breeding condition" Paul notes. This is and of itself leads me to the fact that I (personally) won't feel good about the situation unless I quaretine. Even if i'm only by Pauls theory risking my new fish to infection or issues...quarentine is useful for things other than ich... and i prefer not to risk it....
 
regardless of where i have bought a fish, i would not consider it to be in the "breeding condition"

Correct, fish in a store are never in breeding condition.

This is and of itself leads me to the fact that I (personally) won't feel good about the situation unless I quaretine

The you definately should.

quarentine is useful for things other than ich... and i prefer not to risk it....
Correct, it is your fish and you need to do what you feel is correct. :D

But I also feel that weather you quarantine or not, you should try to keep your fish in breeding condition, just for the heck of it.:wave:
 
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