how to determine "lineage" of a coral frag?

kinerson

New member
I was wondering what everyone looks for as proof of lineage of a coral and thought you guys would be the ones to ask.

Thanks,
Greg
 
I think that is pretty impossible to do without proper documentation. Pictures vary too much, camera used, monitor viewed on, lighting...

I would say a boll of sale from the original would be the only %100 way to know without a sample from each...

I dont know for sure about this topic though...someone will chime in.
 

katpurdy

Premium Member
does it matter? seriously? if the piece is healthy and you are happy with it's growth and color isn't that enough? Anything else is just a way of trying to charge more for frags.
 

drawman

New member
Personally I think it would be cool to determine the scientific name of the corals I keep. For me it has nothing to do with making money off of frags, if that was the case I wouldn't be in the hobby. I can't speak for others though. It is nearly impossible to determine the species of many coral, such as acroporids. You would at the very least need a microscope and maybe even have to get into the realm of genetics. Furthermore, I believe that taxonomy with respect to corals is very fluid at the moment. Apart from monospecific genuses (such as catalaphyllia jardinei) the best you can do is take an educated guess based on morphology and other characteristics.
 

MeuserReef

Welcome to the next level
A brief interlude to my post:

My wife collects Plumeria trees from Hawaii. There is a nation-wide society that is responsible for all "naming" of certain strands of Plumeria (they are named by color/style of flower by th grower and then sent for certification). In order for a species to be "named", the cultivars lineage must be documented, sent in to the Plumeria Society and there is even DNA testing of the strand to insure that each "Named Cultivar" is unique and that there is only a single "documented" example of each.

Why isnt there something like this with Corals?
 

mpoletti

You'll never walk alone
Premium Member
OT: I love plumarias

I collect collector pieces from people who are also collectors. It is a personal thing and it doesn't really matter on way or another. The bottom line, I buy corals because I like the way they look.
 

MeuserReef

Welcome to the next level
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11655413#post11655413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
The bottom line, I buy corals because I like the way they look.

I couldnt agree more. I have always been captivated by the amazing life that we consider a "coral reef" and really dont care if anything I have is "LE" or "ORA" or whatever. I like pretty corals.



DISCLAIMER: There are alot of sweet LE and ORA corals, but my liking of them is because they are beautiful, not because they carry the status of being this or that.


Plumerias are cool... I..., umm I mean my wife has a 120 sq. ft. greenhouse filled with them.
 

SPStoner

Team RC
Re: how to determine "lineage" of a coral frag?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11652884#post11652884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kinerson
I was wondering what everyone looks for as proof of lineage of a coral and thought you guys would be the ones to ask.

Thanks,
Greg
Get it direct from the source, or know the people you are dealing with. There is no standard, and many trade hands without bills of sale. Bottom line is, if you have doubts about the lineage, you should make any potential trade partners aware of this ahead of time.

Funny story about lineage that came up recently. There is a chalice coral that bears my name out there (not my idea BTW). I arranged a trade with someone for a coral I had been looking for. They asked for a frag of my chalice in exchange. A day after we received our respective packages, I received the following email from the guy, honest to God. " Tony, are you sure that is the genuine SPStoners Watermelon Chalice? It doesn't look like the picture that ******** posted" I nearly fell off my chair. Dude, it's my coral!:lol:
 

deklin

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11653495#post11653495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by katpurdy
does it matter? seriously? if the piece is healthy and you are happy with it's growth and color isn't that enough? Anything else is just a way of trying to charge more for frags.

I disagree, I believe there is value in acquiring a coral that has established lineage. That value lies in obtaining a coral that has been aquacultured in captivity for quite some time. A thriving coral that has been passed around as frags many times are generally more adaptable and healthy. They have less incidents of RTN or STN when adjusting to a new tank.

Also, an established lineage eliminates concerns of browning of polyps or fading of colors that are commonly seen in maricultured corals. Corals with lineage are tried and true and able to maintain stunning coloration in a variety of tanks and not just one particular tank.

Finally, I would rather support propogating established aquaculture lines rather than contributing to the corals that are ripped from the ocean. I'm willing to pay just a bit more to ensure this.
 

PUGroyale

New member
Re: Re: how to determine "lineage" of a coral frag?

Re: Re: how to determine "lineage" of a coral frag?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11656259#post11656259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SPStoner
Tony, are you sure that is the genuine SPStoners Watermelon Chalice?

Yes... but how can we be sure you're you??? :D
 

OnlyCrimson

New member
Oh great, now people are gonna jack up the prices on frags becasue they come from a certain lineage. I see your marketing scheme here!!! j/k, but it is mostly pointless.
 

HBtank

Premium Member
In the end, if someone says it is some named LE coral, and it looks just like it... well, does the lineage really matter?
 

jmaneyapanda

Commencing hatred
The bottom line truth is that there is no policing or monitoring of this at all, so it is really a moot point. There is no certification process, no paperwork, no population manager, so there is no control.

This hobby has literally no control over any aspect of the propogation of corals. For example, how is a coral determined to be "aquacultured"? What are the defining characters of it? Is it grown in artificial water under artificial light? From what source? From how many generations? Does generations apply to an organism which reproduces asexually? Someone can (and probably has) hacked up a wild caught colony, glued the pieces to frags plugs, and sold them as aquacultured. And there is nothing to stop them from doing so.
 

Kip

New member
someone already said it i think... but i like a "lineage" to a coral. the coral gets a history of doing well in captivity, coloration, speed of growth, etc.

for example... the infamous tyree purple monster... many have it. many share how slow it grows... many share the primary 2-different colorations of it (high/low light)... and we know that it has been doing well in captivity for a long time.

it gives you a goal, something to aim for, something to compare your experiences with. if i kept buying monsters and they kept rtn'ing, i'd know something is up. if i had a monster and it was brown w/ purple tips... i'd know something isnt right in my system because i could compare it to others'.

you cant do this with wild stuff... not even wildAC'd stuff

i know at one point or another all of the LE, etc, etc corals were wild... but i sure dont wanna spend thousands of dollars importing wild corals, half of which will die and half of which will be drab just to hopefully get one that will color up and be nice 2-3yrs later. (now, if i were a rich man... that'd be fun)

so.. if there are nice pieces out there that look super cool and have a great track record... i dont mind the whole "lineage" thing that leads to commanding a prettier penny to acquire it.

JMO :)
 

jmaneyapanda

Commencing hatred
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11658676#post11658676 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kip
someone already said it i think... but i like a "lineage" to a coral. the coral gets a history of doing well in captivity, coloration, speed of growth, etc.

for example... the infamous tyree purple monster... many have it. many share how slow it grows... many share the primary 2-different colorations of it (high/low light)... and we know that it has been doing well in captivity for a long time.

it gives you a goal, something to aim for, something to compare your experiences with. if i kept buying monsters and they kept rtn'ing, i'd know something is up. if i had a monster and it was brown w/ purple tips... i'd know something isnt right in my system because i could compare it to others'.

you cant do this with wild stuff... not even wildAC'd stuff

i know at one point or another all of the LE, etc, etc corals were wild... but i sure dont wanna spend thousands of dollars importing wild corals, half of which will die and half of which will be drab just to hopefully get one that will color up and be nice 2-3yrs later. (now, if i were a rich man... that'd be fun)

so.. if there are nice pieces out there that look super cool and have a great track record... i dont mind the whole "lineage" thing that leads to commanding a prettier penny to acquire it.

JMO :)

Ok, how do we regulate the lineages? The Pm I have, how do you know where it came from adie from my word of mouth?
 

xtm

Active member
I was thinking about this the other day. What if- say I have a frag of Acropora Valida and I wanted to know where it came from, the first thing I would do is talk to the person who gave it to me. I'd ask him where it came from.. then I would go to that person and ask the same thing... I would keep doing this until I reach the final guy who took it from the ocean. Does that sound do-able?

It would be cool to learn EXACTLY where they got my coral from... sounds like a lot of work though..
 

Unarce

Unshackled
It just boils down to how important it is for the individual. If it's not important at all, you likely won't ask about the lineage. At the other end of the spectrum, a serious collectors would not only ask if it's lineaged, but what the trail is from the offering party down to the originator of the piece.

If the person you're getting the piece from can give you that trail in writing, than chances are, you've got the real thing. If not, then the piece should have a very steep discount, as the strain is a large part of the coral's value. Too often, people take advantage of the 'name game'.
 
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