TheCamaroShow
Member
does anyone even know the person who owns the site in person?
How to make RC more active
- Thread starter TheCamaroShow
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Several of the mods/admins have met with him over the years - back when he was more involved in running the site (site used to be run on a box in his office; when the site went down, he'd have to go in to the office and reset the box).
Kevin
oseymour
Euphyllia Addict
Never said any of those things, and even if I came close - I added the context of why - so to pull these words out and single them out is taking them out of context. Adding "at least that what it sounded like" doesn't change that. You interpreted them as some kind of attack on the forum or the mods which it wasn't.
Again, I don't know where the horrible came from, that's your words not mine
I think you guys have made your position clear. I also learned that you guys can't take a little criticism, this is a thread where users are actively trying to help what's going on here and it turned into this.
I'm going to continue to visit for the one thing I can't get anywhere else - Royal Exclusiv support. As soon as [MENTION=225253]slief[/MENTION] and the team have another way for me to read up and get quick help with their products - I won't be back.
It was fun and I learned a lot.
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Just some summary points for folks that either miss them, or did not read from the beginning:
1. The site is not a popularity contest--it is about information sharing. Folks that like the razzle dazzle ads and gimmicks, the likes and the tweets, will be disappointed. RC is not going in that direction.
2. Infrastructure changes will not happen, mods can only mod, not create shiny objects to attract attention.
3. The only way to breathe life into RC is for us, as individuals, to become more active: take ownership!
I will say I don't post much and stopped looking at a lot of posts because I got tired of reading queries about things the OPs could have easily looked up themselves in 5 minutes. If you are not willing to do the "school work" then you probably shouldn't be in this hobby. Get a freshwater tank with some colored tetras. But this is out of our control.
The only thread I ever saw deleted really needed to be deleted. Along with the school work comes understanding the difference between coincidental, anecdotal, qualitative, and quantitative evidence--and what you can and can't infer from it.
Also, on the tank of the month, I'd like to see it again too but it has been explained elsewhere that the problem was not keeping it going, but finding people willing to do the write up work for submission. The actual TOTM selectee has to write the article, not the mods. See point # 3.
1. The site is not a popularity contest--it is about information sharing. Folks that like the razzle dazzle ads and gimmicks, the likes and the tweets, will be disappointed. RC is not going in that direction.
2. Infrastructure changes will not happen, mods can only mod, not create shiny objects to attract attention.
3. The only way to breathe life into RC is for us, as individuals, to become more active: take ownership!
I will say I don't post much and stopped looking at a lot of posts because I got tired of reading queries about things the OPs could have easily looked up themselves in 5 minutes. If you are not willing to do the "school work" then you probably shouldn't be in this hobby. Get a freshwater tank with some colored tetras. But this is out of our control.
The only thread I ever saw deleted really needed to be deleted. Along with the school work comes understanding the difference between coincidental, anecdotal, qualitative, and quantitative evidence--and what you can and can't infer from it.
Also, on the tank of the month, I'd like to see it again too but it has been explained elsewhere that the problem was not keeping it going, but finding people willing to do the write up work for submission. The actual TOTM selectee has to write the article, not the mods. See point # 3.
Tyler.L
New member
I find some posts people get to uptight. Just personality and things are in text, so there is no context to tone etc from just letters on your screen.
Secondly people dont search. Ive seen multiple threads where its very simple, knowledgeable, things that a basic hobbyists should know. Ive owned this anemone for a year whats the ID. My coral is white but now is brown whats happened. How are people buy white corals and not knowing theyre bleached.
When i first started i read, and read, and read. People dont do/want that anymore. Thats things we cant change. Does it get annoying telling people simple things over and over. Yes, and its worse to read it. Giving attitude and telling people just to search doesnt help the hobby, forum, or the person if they dont know anything. Its a community to help people. Egos are at play and we need to stop going at noobs when they're just simply oblivious.
Secondly people dont search. Ive seen multiple threads where its very simple, knowledgeable, things that a basic hobbyists should know. Ive owned this anemone for a year whats the ID. My coral is white but now is brown whats happened. How are people buy white corals and not knowing theyre bleached.
When i first started i read, and read, and read. People dont do/want that anymore. Thats things we cant change. Does it get annoying telling people simple things over and over. Yes, and its worse to read it. Giving attitude and telling people just to search doesnt help the hobby, forum, or the person if they dont know anything. Its a community to help people. Egos are at play and we need to stop going at noobs when they're just simply oblivious.
You can find one of the reasons why the forums are loosing to Facebook and how search engines are killing the forums.
I personally believe that you cannot mock someone if the other person has came to you for help. this will only make him leave and search for other alternatives.
Sent from my ASUS_X00TD using Tapatalk
I personally believe that you cannot mock someone if the other person has came to you for help. this will only make him leave and search for other alternatives.
Sent from my ASUS_X00TD using Tapatalk
I've been here since the beginning. I was not involved with Larry and John directly at the very start but I was here and got involved very shortly after.
I will opine like an old man now, so buckle up kids.
When this place started, people engaged differently, the world was a different place, they came here for the information and fiendships. They didn't come here for free giveaways or raffles, they came to learn and share. There was a physical hum around here of just.... fun...
There has been a generational shift in behavior that some of us have witnessed since 1999; many (not all) people have changed (many weren't even born in 99) they're not interested in learning or sharing or friendships; they want an instant answer, they want free stuff along with it. And we (RC) have always chosen just to stick to our guns and basics, we're here for information, period. Of course our software is outdated (but still secure), we've lost some big names over time, we've removed some, we shuttered our magazine because of lack of participation...all of these things are true.
Regarding the beloved topic of bans and removals, I've grown exhausted of discussing this one and mostly just ignore it now. Everyone knows someone who has been banned, it's kinda like Kevin Bacon and the six degrees of separation. When you are as big as we have been, you become a target. It's math. We always say that you only see or hear one side of the story, and the guy screaming on the other board about how he's been unjustly banned. And we continue to say, you're seeing one side of the story. As been mentioned, some of the things said to us in private would shock you. I personally have had my wife threatened by members....over a ban...on a fish website, and I can guarantee those folks never told that side of the story to their friends or posted that little tidbit to anyone. We've actually become quite casual now about reinstating people that come and ask or have rejoined and want their old banned name back. Most of it is water off a ducks back and we just throw the switch and see what happens. But this topic is tired and old. Behave like an adult, treat others like an adult, follow the stated rules.....voila, no problems.
So where do we go from here?
I honestly don't know.
We're operating in an environment where we can't go ask for cash for anything, where the owner is mostly absentee and not interested in selling and we have limited capabilities of the things we can effect change on. The likes of Facebook and other instant media has fundamentally changed the landscape. And that's not bad or good....it just is..
Virtually every single time this topic has come up over the years, the suggestions focus around 2 main themes. Raffles/giveaways and content (as it relates to the magazine/authors).
Giveaways: not going to happen. Unless a sponsor wants to do something in their forum, RC is not buying and giving stuff away.
Say what you want or complain, I'm speaking the truth. This is not happening.
Remember: this place grew up and thrived in a time when just the information sharing was its' fuel. We recognize that times and people have changed but unfortunately, this won't.
Content: We'd love for people to step up and write some original content or volunteer to edit. But the same thing always happens. They want money or real life gets in the way of volunteering at some point.
So I don't know what is to come. Will we return to a period of growth? Or slowly fade to become an enormous virtual library in the history books of the early internet?
I hope it's the former but either way, I am happy to have been here and met the people I have met and made friends with a few.
I will opine like an old man now, so buckle up kids.
When this place started, people engaged differently, the world was a different place, they came here for the information and fiendships. They didn't come here for free giveaways or raffles, they came to learn and share. There was a physical hum around here of just.... fun...
There has been a generational shift in behavior that some of us have witnessed since 1999; many (not all) people have changed (many weren't even born in 99) they're not interested in learning or sharing or friendships; they want an instant answer, they want free stuff along with it. And we (RC) have always chosen just to stick to our guns and basics, we're here for information, period. Of course our software is outdated (but still secure), we've lost some big names over time, we've removed some, we shuttered our magazine because of lack of participation...all of these things are true.
Regarding the beloved topic of bans and removals, I've grown exhausted of discussing this one and mostly just ignore it now. Everyone knows someone who has been banned, it's kinda like Kevin Bacon and the six degrees of separation. When you are as big as we have been, you become a target. It's math. We always say that you only see or hear one side of the story, and the guy screaming on the other board about how he's been unjustly banned. And we continue to say, you're seeing one side of the story. As been mentioned, some of the things said to us in private would shock you. I personally have had my wife threatened by members....over a ban...on a fish website, and I can guarantee those folks never told that side of the story to their friends or posted that little tidbit to anyone. We've actually become quite casual now about reinstating people that come and ask or have rejoined and want their old banned name back. Most of it is water off a ducks back and we just throw the switch and see what happens. But this topic is tired and old. Behave like an adult, treat others like an adult, follow the stated rules.....voila, no problems.
So where do we go from here?
I honestly don't know.
We're operating in an environment where we can't go ask for cash for anything, where the owner is mostly absentee and not interested in selling and we have limited capabilities of the things we can effect change on. The likes of Facebook and other instant media has fundamentally changed the landscape. And that's not bad or good....it just is..
Virtually every single time this topic has come up over the years, the suggestions focus around 2 main themes. Raffles/giveaways and content (as it relates to the magazine/authors).
Giveaways: not going to happen. Unless a sponsor wants to do something in their forum, RC is not buying and giving stuff away.
Say what you want or complain, I'm speaking the truth. This is not happening.
Remember: this place grew up and thrived in a time when just the information sharing was its' fuel. We recognize that times and people have changed but unfortunately, this won't.
Content: We'd love for people to step up and write some original content or volunteer to edit. But the same thing always happens. They want money or real life gets in the way of volunteering at some point.
So I don't know what is to come. Will we return to a period of growth? Or slowly fade to become an enormous virtual library in the history books of the early internet?
I hope it's the former but either way, I am happy to have been here and met the people I have met and made friends with a few.
Nicely stated. :thumbsup:
JTL
New member
Personally, I like both sites (you know who I mean). I don't have as many questions as I once did but I still like reading and occasionally contributing to others questions. I have been around for a long time and in and out of the hobby. Agu was an early mod and eventually became a friend of mine (we lived in the same town in FL). This site was the go to place for information for many years. When I started in this hobby in 1985 there was no internet, my information came from buying and reading books and from whatever I could glean from going to my lfs in Minneapolis. Back then it was fish only with bio balls. Reefkeeping is much easier today thanks to sites like these. Yes, occasionally there is a jerk in the crowd but that is life. For the most part everyone gets along just fine and there a few prolific posters on RC that give a wealth of advice. Just my opinion.
Not at all. You gave an itemized list of what was wrong with the forum. If that's what you believe, then it makes little sense that you would hang around. If having that pointed out to you makes YOU feel like the mods can't take forum criticism, so be it. We get a tremendous amount of criticism over things we don't control, and some over things we do.
We evaluate all the criticism we receive, but have learned over 19 years on the internet that you can't change someone's mind when their mind is made up. You made your points quite clearly, even if you wish to deny them now. Our experience indicates a long, drawn out discussion/argument would be waste of time and effort.
To my last point, let's look at your list of problems:
- we have banned too many people, and should unban a whole bunch of people who have created unnecessary issues for the site in the past. As Mike indicated, we actually do unban people, but it's not happening in a wholesale manner, and we're certainly not going to discuss the reasons for a ban, or a ban reversal, or the refusals of a ban reversal, with the general membership.
- RC is the butt of jokes now. Hmmm, how would you suggest that mods change that?
- RC has a terrible reputation. Again, how do mods change that?
Mods keep the site running, barely. We don't have the resources to do much to change the look/feel of RC. We mostly try to keep the vast amount of knowledge in RC's archives available, and keep people from turning RC into the flame fest that is the rest of the internet.
We have very specific commercial posting rules, and this is where many of our conflicts come into play: people who want to make a buck off the internet want use RC's resources without becoming sponsors. They may be nice folks in real life, but on the internet they try to leverage RC for their own financial ends, and that impacts RC's paying sponsors, so it's a non-starter.
So, if you're more than a person who just complains without offering VIABLE solutions, we're willing to listen. Otherwise, you've made your points clear, and you are welcome to stay or go as you please, but you've made your intentions clear there too.
Have a nice day,
Kevin
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+1...
What's the "THIS" that you are referring to? We have tried to explain what's in our control and where the site stands considering the ownership and what can be done to change the site. The only thing I see that's making things a little off is people getting upset about the answers given. Like it's been said in previous posts, there are a lot of things out of our control.
This is the problem. It was fun and "you" learned a lot. But you aren't willing to put that forward to the new members. If it doesn't affect "you" you're gonna take your ball and run.
oseymour
Euphyllia Addict
I understand the frustrations with not being able to upgrade the site and do more with the owner not around - But I still think your answers were kinda rude - it went from suggesting solutions to being told I don't need to post here.
I don't owe RC anything, I came and contributed as best as I could and was helped a lot.
I don't owe R2R anything either - they happen to be the it site now with technology and features that makes things easier, more fun and now most of my friends are there. It fits my needs and what I'm looking for. I don't get the upside for staying except here except for nostalgia and forums that I can't find anywhere else.
Also, whoever owns the site is pocketing the revenue from ads and sponsorships and not improving the site - not going to shed a tear for that.
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TheCamaroShow
Member
what year did RC start?
You really don't have an understanding of the cost side of the equation to keep a site of this size running.
This isn't executing on someones laptop on their Comcast connection at home.
mcgyvr
New member
I was think about the owner not wanting to sell and being absentee so maybe Oseymour has a valid point when he says the guy is just taking the money and not improving the site. If that is the case...what can possibly go wrong
Its a choice they have made..
Improving the site typically costs money (depending on what improvements you are talking about.. but even time is money)..
If it doesn't generate more revenue then whats the point..
If it does well....
They have made their choice..
Sponsors are more than capable of reaching their customers through the platform as it stands..
Adding basic/newer typical forum functionality or changing the look or whatever is unlikely to provide a monetary benefit to a sponsor..
But yes.. Typically raffles,etc... are something that can certainly help generate revenue/awareness,etc... for a sponsor. So IMO this site as it stands doesn't offer the potential revenue that other sites may offer..
I would think sponsorship costs here are lower than other sites because of that..
Again.. choices...
We all have/can make them..
Don't like it here.. Fine.. Go somewhere else.. Many have.. and others have come here for what it offers.. different strokes/different folks,etc.. blah blah blah..
Just accept that RC is what it is and at this point is unlikely to be anything other than what it is today.. They have made that very clear..
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