Hybrid clown experiment

awesome!!!

so heres my four pairs(choices for you to try)
1. frenatus x ocellaris(maybe one with a ton of white)
2. sebea x polymnus(this are very popular proaquatix has a pair of them check their site)
3.orange skunk x chyropterus
4. maroon x clarkii (maybe youll have better luck then me)

hybrids of clowns occur in the wild, rare but it happens. they are seperated by open ocean, reefs, islands. take that away and let the species mingle and theyll hybridize only some offsping will be fertile they survive its called evolution(new species is born) same thing as if you take a species and seperate because of a different characteristic aka picassos and snowflakes.
 
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sustainable aquatics- youd have to call to get them as singles though but they are very healthy and a easy company to deal with.

bluezooaquatics- customer services isnt the best but their fish are usually healthy plus they have a good selection.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12289479#post12289479 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
I was actually going to leave this one alone until you made this comment.
Last time I checked Caucasians and Asians are the same species (**** Sapiens) whereas a Skunk Clown and a Percula are not the same.
It would be more like you being put in a locked room with a Neanderthal for your entire life just to see what your offspring would produce or even if you would choose to mate at all. You would not be "forced" to do anything but who knows, she might start looking good after a while. :lol:
Click to expand...

What makes them different species (Skunks and Perculas) and us the same species? If they are so closely related that they can produce healthy offspring, why not just consider them to be different nationalities, or something like we do with ourselves. Yes, they look different, but I don't look like a Japanese either. If they can not produce healthy offspring, then I understand why they are different species. If the fish is considered to be different species because they look different and may come from a different area of the planet, then we should be considered to be different species as well.

We put Tangs in the same tank with Basslets. Lions with eels. We are always mixing different species in the same tank. No one thinks anything about it. Why is it so wrong to place different clowns together? Provided they don't fight.
 
hybrid striped bass-----someone once had this crazy idea.......give it a shot maybe something cool will happen.

a boss of mine says this all of the time: if we knew what we were doing, then it wouldn't be research...i think he is quoting Einstein
 
I would start with the hybrids that "may" occur in nature.

Orange skunk (sandaracinos) x chysopterus = white cap (leucokranos)
Pink skunk (A. perideraion) x ocellaris = A. theilei (sp?)
A. nigripes x A. bicinctus = A. chagos (sp?)

I have tried to replicate Orange skunk x chysopterus mix two different times starting with immature individuals. In both cases, as the fish matured the chysopterus (female) kicked the skunk out of the anemone that they had previously shared.

A couple hints. I would use a 40 gal. tank and only one anemone. If you don't plan on using an anemone then supply only one clownfish shelter, flowerpot, etc.. Most clownfish would rather be the boss than a subordinate male. If given the chance even clowns of the same species will often break their pair ties and wait for their own male to come along.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12290902#post12290902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
What makes them different species (Skunks and Perculas) and us the same species? If they are so closely related that they can produce healthy offspring, why not just consider them to be different nationalities, or something like we do with ourselves. Yes, they look different, but I don't look like a Japanese either. If they can not produce healthy offspring, then I understand why they are different species. If the fish is considered to be different species because they look different and may come from a different area of the planet, then we should be considered to be different species as well.
Click to expand...

You're kidding right? I would recommend taking a basic class on biology before you start breeding fish.

A species is not defined by appearance but mainly by reproduction. If the two groups do not interbreed because of something in their genetic make-up perhaps A. Percula are not attracted to A. Clarkii, or they breed at different times of year, then they are different species.

If, on the other hand, the two groups would interbreed freely provided only that some external barrier was removed then they are subspecies. Other factors include differences in mating behavior or time and ecological preferences such as water temperature variations.

We as people are not different species just because we look different. The physical appearaces of various races are mainly due to geographical, dietary and other various external dynamics but we are still the same species. I guess you might say we are subspecies.
 
this is my first time reading this thread and i have noticed "clownreef" keeps saying that snowflakes are the ugliest clowns around. you have mentioned this in a few other threads and i actually do take some offense to that because i think they are beautiful clowns. it's your opinion keep it to yourself!!!!

btw try breeding a maroon and a perc. and maybe they will have cool patterns with a nice maroon color.
 
I look at the term species as one arbitrarily given for the sake of convenience to a set of individuals closely resembling each other .... it does not essentially differ from the term variety, which is given to less distinct and more fluxtuating forms. The term variety, again in comparison with mere individual difference, is also applied arbitrarily, and for mere convenience sake - Charles Darwin
 
fishkid- I think it's more of a joke that we say those types are ugly. some people just disagree with hybridation (?)

You're fish are beautiful to you, even if they have "a face only a mother could love" :lol:

that's all that matters. I could care less if someone called all my fish ugly. I know they're incredibly good-looking (like zoolander) haha
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12289258#post12289258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
.......I am a white man from the US. Would it be wrong for me to date a lady from Japan?

......
Click to expand...
?????
I can believe that you wrote this either.
I agree with triggerfish1976.
 
Lets not get too wrapped up in what is a species and what is not. Its an artificial grouping that helps us organize animals. Like a lot of things in science, the more we find out, the less things fit into nice compartments. Even the different complexes of clowns(including Premmas) are closely related enough to produce fertile offspring and in some cases it occurs in nature. Does that make them species, subspecies, varieties or races? It doesn't really matter. Its a label that no longer tells the whole story as it relates to clowns and many other creatures.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12289736#post12289736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flighty
The biggest problem you will probably have is getting them to spawn at all. I personally don't think it hurts to try, it's not like any babies will be released into the wild.
Click to expand...

I agree. I may never get two different clowns to breed, but what's the worse that can happen? I'll end up with 8 fat and happy clown fish. I'm sure I will learn quite a bit allong the way as well. We know very little about this subject. My main reason for doing this is curiosity. What will happen if a juvenile skunk and perc are raised together? Will they try to kill each other, hang out and be buds, or fall in love and live happily ever after? No one really knows.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12289801#post12289801 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
Not to mention how many you may wind up with that no one wants. Will you keep them for the rest of their natural life or dispose of them?
Click to expand...

I would never dispose of them by flushing them down the toilet or anything, if that's what your asking.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12293640#post12293640 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
I would never dispose of them by flushing them down the toilet or anything, if that's what your asking.
Click to expand...

thats what you get a lionfish for or a grouper. ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12290823#post12290823 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bencozzy
awesome!!!

so heres my four pairs(choices for you to try)
1. frenatus x ocellaris(maybe one with a ton of white)
2. sebea x polymnus(this are very popular proaquatix has a pair of them check their site)
3.orange skunk x chyropterus
4. maroon x clarkii (maybe youll have better luck then me)

hybrids of clowns occur in the wild, rare but it happens. they are seperated by open ocean, reefs, islands. take that away and let the species mingle and theyll hybridize only some offsping will be fertile they survive its called evolution(new species is born) same thing as if you take a species and seperate because of a different characteristic aka picassos and snowflakes.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ben.
I checked the site and they offer two different hybrids. Both of which are beautiful fish if you ask me. They looked healthy as well.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12291398#post12291398 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phender
I would start with the hybrids that "may" occur in nature.

Orange skunk (sandaracinos) x chysopterus = white cap (leucokranos)
Pink skunk (A. perideraion) x ocellaris = A. theilei (sp?)
A. nigripes x A. bicinctus = A. chagos (sp?)

I have tried to replicate Orange skunk x chysopterus mix two different times starting with immature individuals. In both cases, as the fish matured the chysopterus (female) kicked the skunk out of the anemone that they had previously shared.

A couple hints. I would use a 40 gal. tank and only one anemone. If you don't plan on using an anemone then supply only one clownfish shelter, flowerpot, etc.. Most clownfish would rather be the boss than a subordinate male. If given the chance even clowns of the same species will often break their pair ties and wait for their own male to come along.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil

What do you think would happen if the Orange Skunk was just a little more mature than the Chysopterus? With the Skunk being the more placid of the two, (just MHO) maybe a female skunk could keep a male Chysopterus in check.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12293970#post12293970 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
Thanks Phil

What do you think would happen if the Orange Skunk was just a little more mature than the Chysopterus? With the Skunk being the more placid of the two, (just MHO) maybe a female skunk could keep a male Chysopterus in check.
Click to expand...

I tried introducing a juvenile chyrsopterus to a female orange skunk. She didn't appreciate him very much. :)

In the wild, from what I have read and seen(through pictures) there seems to be a pecking order between the two species and the hybrids, with the more chrysopterus genes you have the more likely you are to be the female.
Example: Female x male
Chrysopterus x skunk
Chrys x leucokranos
leuc x skunk
chrys looking leuc x skunk looking leuc.

It doesn't mean you can't do it. Each female has a different personality.

In the one report I read, it was actually more likely to find a leucokranos in the wild paired with another species (chrys, orange skunk, pink skunk or clarki) than with another leuc.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12291987#post12291987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
You're kidding right? I would recommend taking a basic class on biology before you start breeding fish.

A species is not defined by appearance but mainly by reproduction. If the two groups do not interbreed because of something in their genetic make-up perhaps A. Percula are not attracted to A. Clarkii, or they breed at different times of year, then they are different species.

If, on the other hand, the two groups would interbreed freely provided only that some external barrier was removed then they are subspecies. Other factors include differences in mating behavior or time and ecological preferences such as water temperature variations.

We as people are not different species just because we look different. The physical appearaces of various races are mainly due to geographical, dietary and other various external dynamics but we are still the same species. I guess you might say we are subspecies.
Click to expand...

There are two *rules* in science to determine this.

1) Do they meet and breed in the wild in a natural setting
2) Are their offspring fertile (able to make babies)

The latter of the two is the more important.

Just because two animals can produce offspring, does not mean they are the same species. Lion and a Tiger = Liger, but their offspring are not fertile. Many different types of snakes can be mated( I breed snakes as a hobby), only to produce unfertile offspring. Yet there have just been some new discoveries where two supposed *species* were mated and produced fertile offspring.

So, I agree with the above with the foot note that it is very possible that some clowns could produce fertile offspring because they haven't been separated and evolved for a long period of time and may still be quite closely related.
 
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