I engage in rampant unfounded speculation

[Amoo]

Again, no offense, but are you really treating anemone health with the human concern of human antibiotic resistance? No one even knows what, if any, bacteria infect anemones, so here we are....

This is partly inaccurate and here's why. The medications which we use are shown to treat a broad spectrum of bacterial infections. Mostly gram negative. They are used in both the human AND veterinarian side of the house. If Nems weren't getting bacterial infections the treatments wouldn't work when they get sick.

Do we have 100% scientific proof in a controlled lab setup that we are treating for bacterial infections? No and nobody has claimed that. What has been reported and documented on this forum and others is the recovery of nems using medications which target bacterial infections.

For what it's worth these same medications are used in horticulture as well.

 

[SomeDude12]

I'm not sure if I agree that DD only ships out healthy livestock. It would be more accurate to say they usually ship out 'healthier' live stock compared to their competitors. They're forced into this because they have to post a picture of the live stock in order to sell it. A pair of clowns that I purchased a few weeks ago from DD came with a internal parasite problem that I was just recently able to cure while they were in my quarantine tank. This is after DD's 'extensive quarantine procedure'. If they were actually fully quarantined, then the fish I received wouldn't have internal parasites.

I'm not saying they don't treat at all. They are probably doing a general treatment and then doing a photo shoot as soon as the specimen show signs of improvement. The issue with this is they may not always fully complete the quarantine and recovery process. This can lead to issues down the road with antibiotic resistances. I disagree with you that 'a single treatment would render subsequent ones ineffective'. Why do you think your doctor says to take all your antibiotics even though you start to feel better after 2-3 days? Well you take the remaining 7 days in order to hopefully prevent developing a different and more resistant bacterial strain. In Minh's treatment protocol, I'm pretty sure it says to keep using cipro for 3 days after the anemone starts to look better specifically because of this.

I would recommend you viewing their QT videos. It is much more elaborate, than you perceive it to be.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/videocenter/#Tour

 

[SDguy]

Do we have 100% scientific proof in a controlled lab setup that we are treating for bacterial infections? No and nobody has claimed that.

So why are you all so mad in this thread. A vendor is trying to do something good, and you people are being kinda freakish about it. What do you want me to say that would be better?

 

[SDguy]

If Nems weren't getting bacterial infections the treatments wouldn't work when they get sick.

Actually, there are so many factors in play with marine organisms in an aquarium, that this is pure speculation. Don't lecture a biochemist

 

[Reefahholic]

Well... OK... with that post, I see issues. Have a nice day

What's the issue?

That I'm a clinician and your not prepared to respond at my level? Lol

Bye now...:celeb1:

 

[ocellaris123]

Why not just call or email them to find out if they medicate or not.

 

[Reefahholic]

This is partly inaccurate and here's why. The medications which we use are shown to treat a broad spectrum of bacterial infections. Mostly gram negative. They are used in both the human AND veterinarian side of the house. If Nems weren't getting bacterial infections the treatments wouldn't work when they get sick.

Do we have 100% scientific proof in a controlled lab setup that we are treating for bacterial infections? No and nobody has claimed that. What has been reported and documented on this forum and others is the recovery of nems using medications which target bacterial infections.

For what it's worth these same medications are used in horticulture as well.

That's right Amoo

 

[Reefahholic]

I think what he is saying is that if they are treating them, but not enough to completely defeat the infection, they are actually doing more harm then good. There is a reason the doctor says take the full coarse of "X" medication even after you show no symptoms, the same applies here. A bacterial infection is a bacterial infection is a bacterial infection, different species yes, but still a bacterial infection.

Exactly what I'm sayin'

 

[SDguy]

That I'm a clinician

Ah, explains that. Thanks

 

[Reefahholic]

Again, no offense, but are you really treating anemone health with the human concern of human antibiotic resistance? No one even knows what, if any, bacteria infect anemones, so here we are....

So Cipro (a very broad spec gram negative antibiotic) magically heals anemones that don't have bacterial infections??

"So here we are"

Don't refer to us bro...


Here you are...

 

[Reefahholic]

Why not just call or email them to find out if they medicate or not.

Somebody shoot an email and as for the details.

Post it here.

 

[SDguy]

Don't refer to us bro...

Not even if you paid me

 

[Reefahholic]

Ha...I'm leaving. You win. I must drink some adult bevs now and swim in my pool.

 

[Amoo]

Actually, there are so many factors in play with marine organisms in an aquarium, that this is pure speculation. Don't lecture a biochemist

Congrats? My wife and I own a veterinarian clinic, what's your point other then you're enjoying stirring the pot? Every marine animal I have in my tank has come from LA/DD. Maybe I missed the bashing part you quickly jumped to defend, but it seems to me this thread started as speculation about why treatment methods that have been working successfully for people have suddenly stopped working with Nems from the mentioned retailer.

 

[SDguy]

Congrats? My wife and I own a veterinarian clinic, what's your point other then you're enjoying stirring the pot? Every marine animal I have in my tank has come from LA/DD. Maybe I missed the bashing part you quickly jumped to defend, but it seems to me this thread started as speculation about why treatment methods that have been working successfully for people have suddenly stopped working with Nems from the mentioned retailer.

Congrats as well. I don't stir pots. I just thought it was weird that all this was linked to a vendor in the thread title. Especially when all most of us want in this hobby is more competent and helpful vendors. I guess mine is a pipe dream.....

 

[Amoo]

I don't see where anybody argued that, and it's possible LA is the best of the best in regards to large volume retailers. What we don't know though is how/if they are treating, how long...etc. It was brought up that it is suspected and here's why.

RC can account for the last 5 Gigs/Mag at least that have rolled through DD. This is all in the last month, I know because I have one of them myself. It's easy to track the ones that come from DD because they have them so infrequently and we all share when we grab one.

This works the same way with treatment protocol. We encourage people to post treatment stuff as specifically as possible. You and I both know that no federal grant is going to be handed out to make Nems sick and treat them, so this forum is all we have. All we can do is discuss our experiences and try to make as logical as conclusions as possible. When we start seeing treatment after treatment from the same vendor end in failure, I think we all can agree there are a thousand different things that could play a role in that. I think we can also all agree that there are possibly some things in common with that vendor and QT/Tx protocol.

For those of us who don't work in a lab, the world doesn't operate in a nice clean little bubble. You should know that better then anybody. Doctors of all professions frequently go off label for treatment. When the treatments stop working, it's us as hobbyists job to try to discern why and go from there. Making the assumption LA is treating with something with gram negative coverage is a pretty safe assumption. That doesn't mean somebody doesn't need to contact them and find out, but the whole thing is a process and when you have a bunch of hobbyists from all walks of life working together, this is the best way we currently have to do things.

 

[Toddrtrex]

..........

LADD is not some magical company with God given power to revive Nems. They're treating and need to let their customers know the details.

So, you know that they are treating for a fact? It appears that you know that is the case, and than these posts happen;

Why not just call or email them to find out if they medicate or not.

Somebody shoot an email and as for the details.

Post it here.

It appears that you are claiming that they are doing something, when in fact you don't know if they are or are not --- IMO/E, would be best to get your facts straight before making any claims.

 

[Reefahholic]

That's right.

Nobody bashing LADD, I specifically want to know their treatment protocols for all their Nems.

Why do they fail to list this information?

As stated previously, this is pivotal information that needs to be passed on. That information can increase survival rates by 50% IMO.

I'm just annoyed at all the deaths. I know first hand that it really sucks when a Gig or Mag isn't responding to anything. Trust me, it's a helpless feeling.

All I'm saying is pass this information on. It will increase survival, save the company money, promote business, and bring positive reviews.

I like Live Aquaria and IMO they're the best. They just need to realize what's going on. I'm sure their tired of refunding $300.

They'll give details how to acclimate your animals, but not how you should treat them???

Is it just me or is something wrong with this picture?

 

[Reefahholic]

So, you know that they are treating for a fact? It appears that you know that is the case, and than these posts happen;






It appears that you are claiming that they are doing something, when in fact you don't know if they are or are not --- IMO/E, would be best to get your facts straight before making any claims.

I don't know. Look at the title of the thread. That's just it. Is LADD treating or not?

I have a real good idea, and would be willing to say that I'm about 95% sure, but ur right....I'm speculating.

The big question is...would they be truthful if asked about it?

 

[Toddrtrex]

That's right.

Nobody bashing LADD, I specifically want to know their treatment protocols for all their Nems.

Why do they fail to list this information?

As stated previously, this is pivotal information that needs to be passed on. That information can increase survival rates by 50% IMO.

I'm just annoyed at all the deaths. I know first hand that it really sucks when a Gig or Mag isn't responding to anything. Trust me, it's a helpless feeling.

All I'm saying is pass this information on. It will increase survival, save the company money, promote business, and bring positive reviews.

I like Live Aquaria and IMO they're the best. They just need to realize what's going on. I'm sure their tired of refunding $300.

They'll give details how to acclimate your animals, but not how you should treat them???

Is it just me or is something wrong with this picture?

Again, you are assuming that they are actually treating them --- IMO, it would have been better off asking them first if they even treat them or not before claiming that they are failing to provide this info, there is a chance that they don't treat, so they are not failing to provide the info you want.

Don't see why a simple phone wasn't made.