I just can't win with Nitrates

[mindi]

On Nitrates, suggest you look for the thread where the impact (or not) of ceramic media is discussed. I have a MarinePure block in 100G plus fairly modest (50-60lb..?) live rock in DT. I have always had a nitrate problem but it is at the other end ..just finished my weekly testing and it is zero again. I am sometimes forced to add Seachem Flourish Nitrogen just to get NO3 measurable. I have a mixed reef with 8 fish and 17 corals mainly soft and LPS, so I worry that zero NO3 is a bad number.
I cant say that MarinePure blocks cause low NO3 levels but there is a bit of anecdotal evidence out there if you check the other threads in the Chem forum. My highest reading I can recall would be between 10 and 15..? I test with RedSea Pro Test and have now switched to Salifert.

 

[CStrickland]

Does it come in Cliff Notes? LOL

haha I wish. I need something like this pic I think

do you have a pic of the tank?
I'm wondering about whether besides just making enough nitrogen for itself to use out of the nitrate gas that our bacteria work so hard to produce for us (cyano is a jerk!), it could like leak it into the water or something. Similar to how when bacteria release bound phos from rocks for their food, a lot leaks into the water. I guess you would need a lot of cyano, so I was curious what you have going on over there.

PS theres a cyano sticky in the noob forum about 3 days lights out, but idk if just dimming them is addressed there. its a sk8r jam.

 

[Triton_Z]

anybody have a story on light intensity and cyano? If I cut the intensity back on my LED's will the cyano die down some

Yes, the cyano will die down if you can blackout the tank for an extended period of time. I don't know what inverts, corals, etc you have in your current tank. I've had to resort to this on a FOWLR tank in the first year to fight cyano and works.

Nitrate control is really a matter of how much food you put in the tank, bioload, and your ability to export the nitrate. Water changes cannot keep up with insufficient nitrate export. It's not that you don't do water changes because I think there's a ton of other beneficial reasons for water changes, it's just nitrate reduction by WC usually doesnt work unless the volume is in the high percentages.

You need to feed less, lower your bioload, or implement some additional Nitrate export mechanisms. There's a lot of good suggestions already in the thread.

How's your skimmer? Is it adequate to the bioload and tank size? An oversized and efficient skimmer can do wonders for a tank.

 

[soeminpaing]

5ml a week of mb7 is still low dose. I think you should dose daily. I have a 20g nano with 5fish and 100ppm nitrate brings down to undetectable with mb7. That tanks is skimmerless with 1 cube of frozen mysis and a few pellets feeding each day. Biodigest and bioptim might be good solution too.

 

[kissman]

On Nitrates, suggest you look for the thread where the impact (or not) of ceramic media is discussed. I have a MarinePure block in 100G plus fairly modest (50-60lb..?) live rock in DT. I have always had a nitrate problem but it is at the other end ..just finished my weekly testing and it is zero again. I am sometimes forced to add Seachem Flourish Nitrogen just to get NO3 measurable. I have a mixed reef with 8 fish and 17 corals mainly soft and LPS, so I worry that zero NO3 is a bad number.
I cant say that MarinePure blocks cause low NO3 levels but there is a bit of anecdotal evidence out there if you check the other threads in the Chem forum. My highest reading I can recall would be between 10 and 15..? I test with RedSea Pro Test and have now switched to Salifert.

I will look into it more, thanks

haha I wish. I need something like this pic I think

do you have a pic of the tank?
I'm wondering about whether besides just making enough nitrogen for itself to use out of the nitrate gas that our bacteria work so hard to produce for us (cyano is a jerk!), it could like leak it into the water or something. Similar to how when bacteria release bound phos from rocks for their food, a lot leaks into the water. I guess you would need a lot of cyano, so I was curious what you have going on over there.

PS theres a cyano sticky in the noob forum about 3 days lights out, but idk if just dimming them is addressed there. its a sk8r jam.

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Yes, the cyano will die down if you can blackout the tank for an extended period of time. I don't know what inverts, corals, etc you have in your current tank. I've had to resort to this on a FOWLR tank in the first year to fight cyano and works.

Nitrate control is really a matter of how much food you put in the tank, bioload, and your ability to export the nitrate. Water changes cannot keep up with insufficient nitrate export. It's not that you don't do water changes because I think there's a ton of other beneficial reasons for water changes, it's just nitrate reduction by WC usually doesnt work unless the volume is in the high percentages.

You need to feed less, lower your bioload, or implement some additional Nitrate export mechanisms. There's a lot of good suggestions already in the thread.

How's your skimmer? Is it adequate to the bioload and tank size? An oversized and efficient skimmer can do wonders for a tank.

I have done a three day bloackout before when I was battli hair algae before I redid the tank. My skimmer is oversized for my tanks its a Skimz SK181 its rated for upto a 200g tank

5ml a week of mb7 is still low dose. I think you should dose daily. I have a 20g nano with 5fish and 100ppm nitrate brings down to undetectable with mb7. That tanks is skimmerless with 1 cube of frozen mysis and a few pellets feeding each day. Biodigest and bioptim might be good solution too.

I follow the directions on the bottle and did heavy dosing for 2 weeks and then cut back to 5ml a week

 

[kissman]

50% water change tonight

 

[kissman]

Pic of the Super Duper Detritus Extraction McUnit

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[kissman]

blasted rock, blasted rock and then blasted rock while changing 30g of water

 

[kissman]

The cyano is like I never changed 30g last night! Should I do another big water change tonight and just keep hammering them down

 

[urbanrat84]

I have had cyanobacteria a couple of times - last time I used Chemi-clean and its very effective. Never had it back again.

I like the product because even if the cause of the cyanobacteria is still present, it wipes it out and is unlikely to return. The cause then becomes a separate issue without having to deal with the unsightliness of the cyano and its effect on corals when it smothers them.

 

[kissman]

I used Chemi-clean years ago it does work great and i will use again as a last resort i am trying to find the cause

 

[buffalo123]

I've have an issue with high nitrates after disturbing my remote deep sand bed. My nitrate went very high and getting it down no easy task. This is what i found to be progressive in getting nitrates down. Large water change 50-80% depending on your comfort level. Next day do another 30-50%; next day check your nitrate levels. Now is the time to start carbon dosing your aquarium with sugar, vodka, vinegar what ever you choose to use. Hopefully in the next 2 week+ you see an improvement in nitrates. Continue dosing until you get to level of nitrate you want and then just dose to maintain levels. It may also be good if you can stop dosing to see how fast the bacteria utilize the nitrates and make decisions from there how much dosing you will do.
Do your regular water changes.

 

[kissman]

I did another water change last night about 20g I am going to test my nitrates when I get back home on Monday and see what they are and see how the cyano is. Could be good I am not home for a few days to not blas the rocks, disturbed the 1" sand bed and do water changes just kinda let things settle. I am confortable changing about 80% of my water at one time I have done it before. Years ago when I had "old tank syndrome" I was doing that about every other day trying to get the rocks to stop leeching the nutrients then just said the hell with it and started over. I will probably do another big water change on Monday

 

[MRJ]

Throw out your flake food. Best thing I ever did for my tanks. Honestly with macroalgae it is dificult to get rid of nitrates completely especially if you have tangs. I moved on to zeovit and couldnt be happier. No more po4 media, smaller water changes.

 

[Dan_P]

Its hard to tell i didnt do the high test but i am guessing around 20-30. The Cheato has only been in a few days. I have been feeding a little Reef Chili or Phyto twice a week and target feeding to control how much i use. Most of the coral look good but there are a few pieces that aren't and one of those popped the bag in transit to the house. They have been making a come back. The Cyano that is growing during day is doing more harm than anything and is why i want to bring the nitrates down

My first idea. I am guessing you are overfeeding the system. Stop feeding the coral. Stop the pellets and run the feeder in a bucket to see what it is actually dosing. Continue with the frozen food.

My second idea. I am surprised phosphate is not accumulating but nitrate is. Maybe you aren't overfeeding but rather dentrification is not going so well in your system. Vacuuming the substrate might be over oxygenating it. You may need leave it alone for a few weeks. Carbon dosing is an alternative to denitrification.

My third idea. Caulerpa outbreak is a separate issue. You can have this issue with low nitrates too.

My fourth idea. You do not have a nitrate problem. You did have one awhile back that raised the level but two things happened. Your system is now generating nitrates at a much lower level but your remediations are too small, i.e., water changs are too small, too far apart to knock the levels down. Basically, the remediation efforts are only keeping up with current production level. You are running in place.

Hope my ideas stimulate an innovation for you.

 

[MellowReefer]

I had really high nitrates when I set up my first tank because I used tap water. Nitrates were at least 50. I used IO Natural Nitrate Reducer for a few weeks and it brought it down to 0 nitrate and I never had to use any again. It gets stuck in your rocks permanently and keeps consuming nitrates. I'm not sure why this product never got much attention but here's an article that likens it to solid vodka dosing. But as the instructions say, and as happened to me, once my nitrates got to zero I never had to add any again.

http://************.com/2009/12/11/natural-nitrate-reducer-from-instant-ocean-aims-to-deliver-fluid-form-of-solid-vodka-dosing-via-suspended-biodegradable-polymers/

 

[anthonys51]

i would also say more rock, and i like the big ones.

 

[Stolireef]

IMO, cyano is a normal part of keeping a reef tank. It comes and goes and in my experience, is usually related to a temporary imbalance between nutrient import/export. With good basic husbandry, it goes away by itself over time (sometimes, longer than we want to wait). I also think you are too focused on 'levels'. You can kill yourself tweaking things to get to a particular number but I'll bet that the tweaking does more damage than good. Try just reducing feeding for a while, do your regular water changes, and watch carefully. Put your test kits in a dark closet for that same period. See what happens.

 

[kissman]

3 days lights out to begin tonight

 

[anthonys51]

i agree with Stolireef, In the beginning you want everything to be prefect, but sometimes less is more. the more i tested, dosed, and tested, dosed. the worse i was. now i just keep it simple, dont over feed, stay on top of my water changes and maintenance and everything in my tank seems to be happy