I need your opinion about Tangs

[budster.stig1]

I have a 210g in-wall mixed Reef that has just passed one year up and running. I have currently 14 fish, 2 cleaner shrimp, 4 black long spine urchins, a bunch of assorted snails and crabs. I will soon have a Frag grow out tank up and running and will start to populate the DT with Coral as they become ready. About 6 months ago I purchased from the LFS 6 Tangs, a Yellow,Naso,Regal,Sailfin,Kole,and Tomini. All six fish were introduced together, all acclimated well, were swimming and eating just fine for 2 weeks when the Kole died, a few days later the Tomini disappeared, and a few days after that the Sailfin died. They just quit swimming and eating and died in just a few hours. Since that time the remaining 3 Tangs have done just fine. Water was monitored closely and was well with-in safe parameters. I never figured out what happened exactly, but I do want more Tangs in the Tank. Do I dare purchase 3 or 4 more and introduce them together with the existing population? or do I need to move on to other species to fill out my population? I need some help from someone who has been there and done that! Thanks in advance for your comments.
Budster:bum:

 

[snorvich]

Two of your remaining tangs can be very aggressive once established. What level of risk do you wish to incur?

 

[budster.stig1]

Two of your remaining tangs can be very aggressive once established. What level of risk do you wish to incur?

The Tank is large enough and populated with enough rock that removing one or more fish once in, would be difficult, so I guess the answer to your question is a high level of risk would probably be fool hearty.

 

[danimallaminad]

I'd try and focus on why you lost 3 tangs before adding more. just my .02

 

[jaa1456]

There is no way the tank parameters stayed in check after adding 6 tangs. The ammonia spike is what killed the tangs.

 

[Rea17]

I'd try and focus on why you lost 3 tangs before adding more. just my .02

+1

Were they quarantined? The timeline works for disease, but adding 6 tangs all at once is going to cause spikes, as jaa pointed out.

 

[DopeCantWin]

What are your other fish? From my experience with a 210, unless those other fish are pretty small, I wouldn't risk any more tangs. Have all the fish been quarantined for Ich?

 

[budster.stig1]

There is no way the tank parameters stayed in check after adding 6 tangs. The ammonia spike is what killed the tangs.

The system is a total of 340g, 350# of live rock, I tested daily with the first 6 fish I put in a year ago and there was no measureable change in ammonia. With theses six tangs I tested twice a week for the first week, then once a week after the first week, the water parameters did not change illustrated by the fact that the other three tangs and the rest of the tank inhabitants including the invertebrates, the first to show ammonia poisoning, were all just fine. I do not know why these 3 were effected and not the others but they were. It has been 6 months since this happened and the tank is as stable as as a rock, very little algae, so little that I supplement sea weed twice daily for the Tangs and FoxFace, even the wrasses eat Sea Weed regularly. I really don't think your assessment is accurate. Water parameter stability is the advantage of having a large amount of water in a system regardless of the size of the DT, or adding multiple fish.
Thanks for your input.................Budster:bum:

 

[budster.stig1]

+1

Were they quarantined? The timeline works for disease, but adding 6 tangs all at once is going to cause spikes, as jaa pointed out.

These fish died quickly with no signs of disease or I would have been able to figure this out. They were quarantined by the LFS for 3 weeks after I bought them as I did not have a QT at that time. As far as an Ammonia spike, see my comments above.

Thanks for your input...................Budster:bum:

 

[nikon187]

3 weeks is not long enough for qt. It could have been disease

 

[budster.stig1]

What are your other fish? From my experience with a 210, unless those other fish are pretty small, I wouldn't risk any more tangs. Have all the fish been quarantined for Ich?

I have 5 chromis, a 6 line wrasse, a neon wrasse, 2) diamond gobies, a foxface rabbit fish, 2) clown fish, 2) cleaner shrimp, and the other three Tangs, a Regal, a yellow, and a Naso. There are 4 urchins and numerious crabs and snails. Have never had any signs of Ich or disease of any kind.

Thanks for the input.............Budster:bum:

 

[budster.stig1]

3 weeks is not long enough for qt. It could have been disease

How do you explain the other 3 Tangs not being diseased? All were QT together. Does not make sense.

Do you have an opinion on adding more tangs? The original question.

Thanks....................Budster:bum:

 

[jaa1456]

Maybe your test kits are bad. Also other animals that are established will tolerate the swing in parameters better than new additions. Six tangs added at once is still a heavy bio load even for a 340. Which is more likely under 300 gallons with that much rock.

 

[budster.stig1]

Maybe your test kits are bad. Also other animals that are established will tolerate the swing in parameters better than new additions. Six tangs added at once is still a heavy bio load even for a 340. Which is more likely under 300 gallons with that much rock.

340 after rock calculation. (1g per 15#rock and sand). I guess my test kits were bad that one time, but not any time before or after. Like I said does not make sense, parameters were good, and have been since with the same test kits.

There was obviously a reason, probably some type of selective disease that chose just those fish, I don't know but that's not the question. Please re-read the post and comment on the question if you wish!

Thanks again.....................Budster:bum:

 

[dppitone]

There's no way to know what cause their deaths and it would all be speculation. That said, you can't rule out fish that were in a weakened state by capture and transport. The only known fact that you have is that you just got them fresh from an LFS, and it's not uncommon for new fish introductions to expire within a few weeks (see Bob Fenner blogs at wetwebmedia.com).

Maybe you know how long they were at the LFS? Fish that had been in their holding tanks for a couple months have a much better chance of survival. However, fish that were just delivered are still in a stressful situation.

If you're ammonia parameters were in check and there is no sign of illness, then there's not much else to go on.

IMO, the decision whether or not to add more tangs, or other types of fish, is a separate question, not really related to what happened here, until or unless you learned what caused it.

 

[budster.stig1]

There's no way to know what cause their deaths and it would all be speculation. That said, you can't rule out fish that were in a weakened state by capture and transport. The only known fact that you have is that you just got them fresh from an LFS, and it's not uncommon for new fish introductions to expire within a few weeks (see Bob Fenner blogs at wetwebmedia.com).

Maybe you know how long they were at the LFS? Fish that had been in their holding tanks for a couple months have a much better chance of survival. However, fish that were just delivered are still in a stressful situation.

If you're ammonia parameters were in check and there is no sign of illness, then there's not much else to go on.

IMO, the decision whether or not to add more tangs, or other types of fish, is a separate question, not really related to what happened here, until or unless you learned what caused it.

As you say there is no way to know, based on the current knowledge, what caused the deaths of the three Tangs. I reached that conclusion a long time ago after investigating and discussing the heck out of it. The cause of that incident was not my original question? I asked for input on adding more Tangs, or giving that up and moving on to other species. I love Tangs like so many other aquarists, that's why I stocked so many originally, I had little choice but to add them all together to achieve my goal of multiple tangs. The question now is, is that desire now fool hearty, or can I still accomplish my goal of having multiple Tangs. Your opinion would be appreciated.

Thanks for your input..............Budster:bum:

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

I don't think you should add more tangs because half of the first group died and you are unconcerned about finding the reason why. You have some of the best fish disease people trying to help you out maybe you should back off you question and indulge THEIR line of questioning.

 

[dppitone]

I hear ya. Unfortunately, there is no "answer" to this question. Most folks will have the opinion that you shouldn't add more tangs. Folks like me, who've kept tangs in many different groupings and in many different tank sizes over the years may have a different opinion. But in the end it's a judgment.

If you love a shoal of tangs, whether conspecific or whatever, go for it. If it starts to cause a problem, then reason thru it and break it down if necessary. As hard as we try, we can't know what a fish is thinking and can't predict personality or behavior. What works for Paul may not work for Peter. That's the "art" part of the hobby.

If I wanted to add more, and in my judgment it'd be workable, then I'd have no problem going forward. I've "been there and done that." That's just IMO.

As you say there is no way to know, based on the current knowledge, what caused the deaths of the three Tangs. I reached that conclusion a long time ago after investigating and discussing the heck out of it. The cause of that incident was not my original question? I asked for input on adding more Tangs, or giving that up and moving on to other species. I love Tangs like so many other aquarists, that's why I stocked so many originally, I had little choice but to add them all together to achieve my goal of multiple tangs. The question now is, is that desire now fool hearty, or can I still accomplish my goal of having multiple Tangs. Your opinion would be appreciated.

Thanks for your input..............Budster:bum:

 

[degibson84]

Maybe your test kits are bad. Also other animals that are established will tolerate the swing in parameters better than new additions. Six tangs added at once is still a heavy bio load even for a 340. Which is more likely under 300 gallons with that much rock.

This sounds more like the issue. not all fish are affected the same. If the new additions were more stressed than the others that made it the ammonia could have harmed them much more than a fish that wasn't stressed

 

[budster.stig1]

I don't think you should add more tangs because half of the first group died and you are unconcerned about finding the reason why. You have some of the best fish disease people trying to help you out maybe you should back off you question and indulge THEIR line of questioning.

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly a thread goes off point. I can see I'm out of my league on this thread. I determined long time ago that sometimes there is no obvious answer, but I guess ya'll don't share that opinion.

Thanks for the input I guess?..............Budster:bum: