I wanna get certified this year

[tgreene]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14489849#post14489849 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blackthunda77
lol u guys r totally off ur rockers.....all im hearing and seeing is judgementalism and biasness based on nothing.

I've not judged you in any way, shape, or form... Nor would I.

I have however made a statement in regards to the information which you initially provided, and from what you've written, something is amiss.

Please do yourself a favor and do some research in regards to the legalities (or serious lack thereof) of collecting corals from Florida's waters, then consider what SeaJayInSC said about the endless supply of highly skilled and qualified divers that would be available to provide this "service" for free if it were in fact legal and legit... Not only would this woman not need to spend $300 per new diver Cert, but she most likely would even need to pay for the tank fills, because ecology is a HUGE factor in most divers' minds... Most, but certainly not all.

The people that actually DO do these things, are generally all Research Marine Biologists under a very specific University driven grant. Each year they are granted special access for research purposes, and the letters issued are very specific as to exactly what can and cannot be taken, to include size, location and weight.

Again, coral stands a million times better chance of survival in the ocean that it does in a bucket --> holding bin --> treatment tank --> cultivation tank --> treatment tank --> holding bin --> bucket --> and finally back in the ocean.

The ocean provides absolutely everything that they need for survival, in perfect proportions, and for free...

I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on my Aquaculture system, but because it's artificial, it's a never ending expense. I did it however, to propagate multi-generational coral colonies without the need for creating additional stresses on the oceans already fragile and over harvested corals. This way I can provide healthy frags and colonies to my clients, without the need to continuously rape the oceans to do so.

Did you know that it's things such as "Hurricanes" and "Ship Wrecks" which actually perpetuate reef growth in new areas..? Sure, portions do get beat up pretty badly, but when that happens the waves carry the frags to new areas where they settle and grow into new colonies and even entire reef structures.

Who knows, maybe she'll be looking for "volunteers" to collect wayward Sea Turtles at the next meeting!

-Tim

 

[tgreene]

I especially liked the picture of the diver holding 2 corals on page 122, while the Octo was dragging behind unsecured... The potential for damage from that action alone far exceeds anything positive that can be accomplished from a transplanting program.

I learned that in my first day of "licensing" classl!

-Tim

 

[blackthunda77]

they did they said at the next nighttime turtle release we can take a max b ag limit of 3 hatchlings but only if we hace a 250 gal or larger system:rolleye1: that and a juvi manatee. lol

 

[tgreene]

Manatee is best charbroiled with a mild dry rub... :thumbsup:

 

[blackthunda77]

so ive heard

 

[SeaJayInSC]

Guys, I just read the information provided... Their concept of "transplanting coral frags" (only a portion of the project) is moving them from beneath a boat that's run aground to a nearby place where they won't continue to get beat up. That is, there's never a point where the frags are removed from the ocean, cultured for a year or so in an artificial environment, and then returned to the sea. Obviously, this is completely different from what she apparently told you... So I'd still be skeptical. Something's not quite right.

...See, man... Red flags. It's nothing personal. Well, not from my end, anyway... But I still find your anger an indication of guilt.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14490697#post14490697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
I especially liked the picture of the diver holding 2 corals on page 122, while the Octo was dragging behind unsecured... The potential for damage from that action alone far exceeds anything positive that can be accomplished from a transplanting program.

I learned that in my first day of "licensing" classl!

-Tim

ROFLMAO... That's funny. There's that, plus the leg knife (perfect place to catch and destroy stuff), the distinct lack of a protective wetsuit to prevent fire coral stings... No gloves to prevent fire coral stings or protect the rock and coral from oils on the skin, and the use of a flutter kick, which is destructive to coral growth even if the fin doesn't actually touch the coral...

They at least appear to have a caring kick on page 126... The guy on page 122 is plainly doing more damage than good.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14490784#post14490784 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
Manatee is best charbroiled with a mild dry rub... :thumbsup:

They don't come up this way very often, however, I can throw some Piping Plover on the grill. I think maybe a good meal of bbq endangered species should get us all back to talking like friends

 

[SeaJayInSC]

Heh.

I'm headed to Crystal River, FL this weekend (just a quick-vacation) to do some fun-diving. The place is packed with manatee.

Check it out: http://images.google.com/images?q=c...=&startPage=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

Our hotel: http://www.porthotelandmarina.com/

Anyone want to join? Fuel is cheap at the moment, and it's only a drive of a few hours from most places in the Southeast part of the country.

I'm kinda stoked. Although I haven't been in a year or two, I used to regularly hit Crystal just for the fun of it. This will be Kym's first time diving with manatee.

If I spear one, are y'all willing to split up the meat? We can pack in dry ice for UPS shipping...

Just kidding.

We'll be going again four more times over the next couple of months, so let me know if you've got an interest, even if you can or can't go this weekend.

We're planning on taking our four girls (18, 17, and 11 year-old twins) on some of the trips, but this trip will be just for us... A nice breather from our daily lives.

Grab you and yours (if applicable) and c'mon down...

 

[greenbean36191]

A few people here should really get over themselves.

First of all, you don't have to be invited to become a scientific diver. The courses are offered as regular university courses at most schools' marine labs. If you can pass the physical and pay the fees, you can get in regardless of whether your research requires it.

Second, the program mentioned by BlackThunda is overseen by the director of the Biscayne Bay National Park with help from NOAA and the University of Miami. It's entirely legitimate. The corals are grown out at the UM/NOAA facilities on Virginia Key.

Third, no one claimed that ship groundings and hurricanes were the biggest factor in the loss of SFL's reefs. However, they are a very real player and some of the easiest damage to restore- exactly the kind of damage that lends itself to this type of localized transplanting. There are several dozen similar projects occurring at ship grounding sites throughout SFL, many of which have been going on for several years now and have been quite successful. I personally know at least half a dozen people working on them.

As for funding and certification, there certainly doesn't sound like anything fishy to me. It's not at all uncommon for researchers to ask volunteers to chip in to cover some costs. Grants don't pay for everything. Last year I was asked by a friend to help with work in the Bahamas, but I would have to cover about $350 of my costs. Also last year, when I was working on a coral transplanting project, we had participants pay about $500 toward airfare. However, they did get "free" certification because the NSF specifically allocated money in the grant for us to certify new divers for the project because they wanted to include people who wouldn't otherwise get to see what kind of work we were doing.

As for taking wild corals, growing them out in captivity, and then replacing them in the wild- that's been pretty much standard operating procedure for 100 years now.

 

[SeaJayInSC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15118604#post15118604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
A few people here should really get over themselves.

First of all, you don't have to be invited to become a scientific diver. The courses are offered as regular university courses at most schools' marine labs. If you can pass the physical and pay the fees, you can get in regardless of whether your research requires it.

Negative. Read the AAUS bylaws here: http://data.memberclicks.com/site/aaus/AAUSByLaws.pdf

Members are voted in, and only after proving that they have some reason to be considered a member of the AAUS. Generally speaking, this is on an as-needed basis, and generally by invitation by a current AAUS member.

If you are not invited by an AAUS member, then you must petition and prove to the board why you feel that you should become a member of the AAUS and be considered for their dive certification.

It IS commonly offered as a University course - apparently the way that you obtained yours (because you're speaking from experience, right?) - but that's because either the University is an AAUS member or the professor is an AAUS member. Successful completion of the course may be considered an invitation to join the AAUS.

But yes, it really is by invitation only.

But don't believe me and my experience with being an AAUS member and scientific diver - read they bylaws.

Then consider who has to "get over themselves."

Nice avatar, by the way. If that's not you, then who is it?

 

[laud]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14489530#post14489530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeaJayInSC
By the way, what the heck is a "magnet instructor?"

A "magnet" program is a government funded education program of specialty. South Plantation High School is an Environmental science magnet school. A "magnet instructor" would be a teacher specializing in Environment sciences. It is a good school and she is a fine lady.

I think you are arguing semantics, regarding the title of certification or license. It's like chewing someone out in a dissertation for saying "twomany people are whining about placing things in pretty little boxes", or "twomany people argue over the wrong thing."

The fact that this a group of people trying to do something worthwhile is more than enough to overcome the petty whimpering of semantics.

 

[greenbean36191]

Your definition of an invitation is a pretty loose one. You have to have an AAUS member, aka instructor, sponsor your membership. If you complete the course you're essentially assured a sponsorship and there is no need to be invited to take the course in the first place. It's not like someone lets you in on the little secret of scientific diving if they think you're cool enough.

Your original point though was that someone offering scientific diver certification for workers on a restoration program should be a red flag is complete nonsense. NOAA research projects and ALL major universities require divers working under them in the US to have AAUS scientific diver training or equivalent before they even get in the water. Someone working as a diver on a legitimate restoration project would therefore be an AAUS member, so I fail to see the red flag.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just some dummy down in South Florida who has actually worked on reef restoration (Oh yeah, and I studied 3 years at DISL, home of AAUS, under Mike Dardeau, who is on their board of directors).

 

[SeaJayInSC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15119707#post15119707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
Your definition of an invitation is a pretty loose one. You have to have an AAUS member, aka instructor, sponsor your membership. If you complete the course you're essentially assured a sponsorship and there is no need to be invited to take the course in the first place. It's not like someone lets you in on the little secret of scientific diving if they think you're cool enough.

Whatever. I'm not going to argue with you about this. Call the AAUS and ask them if they are offering "scientific diver licenses" to "fish club members" who aren't currently divers in South Florida for free for $300 so that they can pluck coral polyups run over by ships out of the sea and grow them in captivity and see what they have to say.

I'm pretty sure they'll tell you the same thing that tgreene and I have been trying to tell you - run away.

Your original point though was that someone offering scientific diver certification for workers on a restoration program should be a red flag is complete nonsense.

Oh. Okay. My bad.

Call them, then, and check for yourself.

NOAA research projects and ALL major universities require divers working under them in the US to have AAUS scientific diver training or equivalent before they even get in the water.

Correct. This is the very reason why I am fairly confident that nobody's going to walk into a "fish club" and offer the non-diving public a position removing a scarce resource like coral polyups out of ocean... Under the guise of "free for $300..." Especially since there is ZERO shortage of qualified AAUS divers throughout South Florida.

Someone working as a diver on a legitimate restoration project would therefore be an AAUS member, so I fail to see the red flag.

Fine. Sounds great. Go get 'em then.

Hey, did I tell you that the White House called me this morning? Yeah, they're looking for volunteers to guard Obama and his family whenever they're seen in public. No problem if I don't have a C-card to carry a pistol, though - they told me that they'll give me one for free for $300. Yeah, I see no red flags with that, either.

Hey, look... To each his/her own. I signed off on this thread weeks ago - forgot about it, and then you resurrected it. Looks like I need to forget about it again.

Seriously, call the AAUS and see if this is a legit thing. You should know how to get in touch with them, seeing as how you're all connected and what-not.

Let me guess: Prior Navy SEAL?

 

[greenbean36191]

I know it's a legit thing because I'm familiar with this specific project and have worked on similar projects myself where we do take volunteers.

Of course the Miami Herald was probably making it all up too when they wrote an article about it: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/outdoors/story/945478.html

 

[blackthunda77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15120360#post15120360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
I know it's a legit thing because I'm familiar with this specific project and have worked on similar projects myself where we do take volunteers.

Of course the Miami Herald was probably making it all up too when they wrote an article about it: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/outdoors/story/945478.html

great article! Thats "the lady" i was talking about earlier in my post. she was also the one that was trying to "scam" me!!! :rolleye1:

 

[SeaJayInSC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15120360#post15120360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
I know it's a legit thing because I'm familiar with this specific project and have worked on similar projects myself where we do take volunteers.

Right... Me too. But specifically for that reason I know that what Blackthunda was talking about is NOT a "legit thing." Reread his post:

Went to a fish club meeting last night. a lady came up and announced that they needed volunteers for a reef restoration project where they take frags of corals from the beach that are on damaged reefs and bring them back and cultivate them and return frags back to the ocean after a yr or so.....anyways........she said that they will even certify us for free if we want to get certified as long as we volunteer with them. they will even give us our "scientific scuba license" we just have to pay the $300 fee so we can be certified to help with the transplanting part of the projects.

The article you're citing - which is consistent with my experience says:

Curry and his band of volunteers are not working with rocks, but with live coral fragments beaten and cut by boat groundings, hurricanes and underwater construction. Nursed back to health at a nondescript triage facility on Virginia Key, they are destined for one of four underwater nurseries in the park where they will remain for more than a decade until they grow large enough to be replanted to create new reefs.

...Which is very different from what Blackthunda said - he said that this woman "takes frags of corals from the beach" and "returns them to the ocean after a yr or so." Now do you see the red flag?

I would think that anyone involved would be the first one to tell Blackthunda, "bad juju."

Here's another... From the article:

For more than 15 years, Curry and a loosely knit band of University of Miami students and volunteer park rangers have been collecting damaged fragments of boulder corals from throughout the park and placing them in nurseries...

Notice how they specifically named people who have at their disposal the ability to obtain an AAUS certification... Not a random person who's never dived before and has no scuba experience or certifications. Why would anyone who values their scientific work approach a "fish club" and offer certifications for $300 for free, so they they can have a bunch of newbie divers on their fragile coral reef? Why wouldn't they instead find qualified AAUS divers to volunteer - you know, park rangers and University students like the article says?

Of course the Miami Herald was probably making it all up too when they wrote an article about it: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/outdoors/story/945478.html

Negative. You're reading it the way you want to read it, not the way it's actually written. The article is actually proof of why Blackthunda's claims DON'T work, not the opposite.

...But again, I've had enough of explaining it to you. If you still don't get it, then call the AAUS.

 

[SeaJayInSC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15120414#post15120414 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blackthunda77
great article! Thats "the lady" i was talking about earlier in my post. she was also the one that was trying to "scam" me!!! :rolleye1:

Tha scientist in the article is a man, Blackthunda... Obviously not "the lady" who was trying to recruit a non-diving public to remove corals from the ocean by teaching them all to scuba dive for free for $300... And offering top-notch educational credentials normally only offered to Marine Science University students and government employees working in scientific communities.

Nice try, though.

...And if you're trying to imply that it was the author of the article (newspaper reporter) that was trying to recruit you and offering AAUS creds, then your whole story makes even less sense.

 

[blackthunda77]

dude you tend to read in between the lines a lttle too much, and no offense, but thats what totally derailed this thread in the first place.

"Coral restoration is sweaty, messy and labor-intensive. After Curry cut the rescued coral fragments into one-inch squares, South Plantation High School biology/marine science teacher Carey Holder glued them onto PVC dowels using marine epoxy. The dowels were embedded with transponder tags bearing a 10- to 15-digit number so that each coral fragment can be identified later, in or out of the water."

carey holder, is the "lady" im talking about. south plantation high school is where our FMAS meeting are held. she was the one making the announcement, and she was the one passing on information on behalf of that organization. she didnt claim to be anything but a messenger. also, if you want i can give you dan crossets email address if you want to hear it from the horses mouth as i have been getting emails from him on a weekly basis inviting us to help the restoration process, but that would be a waste of time since your dead set in your opinion. in any event, i won this battle once before i dont need to do it again, im just glad that people that actually have first hand experience with this organization are starting to chime in.

 

[loyalrogue]

SeaJay, you are making a fool of yourself and it's getting painful to watch.
Nothing Blackthunda was talking about is illegal or illegitimate.
Your red flags are false alarms due to your own (intentional?) misunderstanding.

If you would take a breather, reread the article from the Miami Herald, and then put it together with what Blackthunda has been posting (without being so argumentative) then I'm sure it will become crystal clear to you.

I quote from the article in the Miami Herald:

Coral restoration is sweaty, messy and labor-intensive. After Curry cut the rescued coral fragments into one-inch squares, South Plantation High School biology/marine science teacher Carey Holder glued them onto PVC dowels using marine epoxy. The dowels were embedded with transponder tags bearing a 10- to 15-digit number so that each coral fragment can be identified later, in or out of the water.
''I have no artistic talent at all, so this is challenging to me,'' Holder said, brandishing one of the finished coralsicles.

Blackthunda's "fish club" is actually one of the oldest and largest Marine Aquarium Societies in the country.
The Florida Marine Aquarium Society (FMAS) was established in 1955 and has over 300 members. (Some of whom are responsible for revising the regulations and coral collection laws for the state of Florida.)
Our FMAS meetings are held at South Plantation High School.

Are you starting to see the connection yet?

The subject of the article and the subject of Blackthunda's post are the same program run by the same people.

(Btw, just to make a small correction to what Blackthunda just posted, "the lady" is a regular member at our meetings who is involved in the project and was telling everyone about it, but she is not Carey Holder who is the Science/Marine Biology teacher at South Plantation HS.)

Here are a couple of shots that one of our members, nivram, who's one of the volunteers, took of the "coralsicles" mentioned in the article above.

SeeJay, I don't know if you're really that dense or if you're just being a troll, but you really need to just back-off and stop making such an *** of yourself... and if you're any kind of a man you'd swallow your pride right now and apologize to Blackthunda for being so rude to him and making all those false and derogatory accusations.

 

[SeaJayInSC]

I see.

Well, very nice of you to come on here to support your buddy in his eneavor. That's a good friend, even though you kinda blew it when you got insulting and personal and began the namecalling tirade at the end of your post.

I don't owe anyone an apology - I was never rude to anyone. Please go back and reread the thread before popping in here and taking sides. There was only one rude person here... Well, 'til you showed up.

Yes, I see the connection with the high school, and yes, thank you, as I mentioned several times above, I am fully aware of such a project and that it actually exists. I am also aware that coral polyups exist, divers exist, volunteers exist, that the Miami Herald exists, and that actual photos of actual polyups exist too.

That still doesn't mean that the AAUS is granting free scientific diver "licenses" to the non-diving public for the removal of coral polyups from the ocean. Either someone is vastly misinformed or is lying - 'cause that information is not correct... Even if Blackthunda runs around and gets all the support he can from his buddies.

...But as I said before, I really don't care - Blackthunda's not my business, and if he wants to go out and get scuba certified (the title he chose to start this thread was "I wanna get certified this year,") then he can go out and get a free AAUS scientific diver for $300 for all of us. Doesn't change a thing for me in my world. I just called it like I saw it - B.S. It still is, even if he's only reiterating what was told to him.

I do find it comical, however, that you call me "dense," "a troll," and that I should "stop making an *** of myself" and then tell ME that if I was "any kind of man," I'd "swallow my pride right now and apologize..." For what? I didn't say those things... You did. To me.

I'll be satisfied with an apology by PM so that you don't have to do it publicly.