ICH- 72 days longest documented time or not?

R

ReefCurrent2015

In Memoriam
Is 72 days the longest documented time the parasite itself can survive or the longest actual time the cyst has been documented to hatch?

If the 2nd, would we need to go slightly longer to insure 100% kill rate?
 
72 days is sufficient as a fallow time for ich. The picture is not ich. Most likely uronema or brook.
 
snorvich said:
72 days is sufficient as a fallow time for ich. The picture is not ich. Most likely uronema or brook.
Click to expand...

I put 6 fish through TTM. They all broke out in ICH just before I started. Two of the other damsels regained their color after the TT. Yet this fellow got worse. He appeared to be suffering from the after shocks of the initial break out. He grew weak and died. All the others are doing well thus far. I'll be watching for another 4 weeks. Treating with PraziPro x2 rounds while observing.
 
Deinonych said:
+1

If this fish had brook (which the pictures indicate), then the other fish are at risk. TT only works for Cryptocaryon (ich).
Click to expand...

I don't believe it's brook. I've had Brook before. This I believe was just an after shock for that poor fish. The parasites sucked the life out of him. Probably why he died. Some tolorate Crypto better than others. Apparently he tolerated poor and it killed him in the end.
 
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Agree with the 3 previous experts. This is definitely not ich. It's was either brook or uronema. Yes some fish handle disease better than others but damsels are one of the toughest fish. Ich also would not deteriorate the flesh as pictured in your fish.
 
ReefCurrent2015 said:
I don't believe it's brook. I've had Brook before. This I believe was just an after shock for that poor fish. The parasites sucked the life out of him. Probably why he died. Some tolorate Crypto better than others. Apparently he tolerated poor and it killed him in the end.
Click to expand...

Of course, it's impossible to know without microscopic examination, but I've never seen fish suffering from crypto show those kind of symptoms. I don't see any white nodules, only patchy areas of discolored scales. That would lean more toward brook or uronema than crypto.

Agree that some fish tolerate crypto better than others, but I don't see any clinical signs of a crypto infection in that picture.
 
Another possibility is these splotches were from a secondary bacterial infection. But I'd be willing to bet a parasitic infestation of some sort was the root of the problem.
 
HumbleFish said:
Another possibility is these splotches were from a secondary bacterial infection. But I'd be willing to bet a parasitic infestation of some sort was the root of the problem.
Click to expand...

I believe your more on the right track.

These 6 fish were covered in ICH. NO DOUBT it was ICH. I've had it many times. I've had Velvet and Brook too. It's not brook because the remaining fish are not showing any other symptoms. The other two black domino damsels had very mild discoloration exactly the same as the picture above. Just very mild after the ICH outbreak. The last time I had Brook, all the fish had it. Well clowns that is. I've never seen TTM cure brook either. It definetely took out the ICH. So, could it be that this is the result of the ich infection. Post symptoms. ICH dose affect the fish pretty bad. I've had many fish look like crap after the infection because it was so hard on them.

Maybe a bacterial infection. They have already been through some parzipro.
 
A fish can have multiple ailments or it can be difficult to distinguish between them. I know whenever I'm running a fish thru TT for ich, in the back of my mind I'm always wondering if it's velvet and that I should be using a different treatment. :confused:

Sometimes when in doubt, all you can do is hit the fish with the "kitchen sink" and hope for the best. Chloroquine phosphate treats ich, velvet, supposedly brook and maybe even uronema. I'm not very familiar with acriflavine, but supposedly it also has a broad range... treating certain external parasites, bacterial infections and even fungus.
 
HumbleFish said:
A fish can have multiple ailments or it can be difficult to distinguish between them. I know whenever I'm running a fish thru TT for ich, in the back of my mind I'm always wondering if it's velvet and that I should be using a different treatment. :confused:

Sometimes when in doubt, all you can do is hit the fish with the "kitchen sink" and hope for the best. Chloroquine phosphate treats ich, velvet, supposedly brook and maybe even uronema. I'm not very familiar with acriflavine, but supposedly it also has a broad range... treating certain external parasites, bacterial infections and even fungus.
Click to expand...


When I got home today, I cut the light on in the HT. Then I inspected the fish really well like I do daily. First let me tell you what kind of fishes they are. 2 domino damsels, 2 bright orange cinnamon clowns (I believe). One ignitus anthius. Both clowns appeared to have a white haze covering them. It's consistant with Brook. Started MS Will update later with pics.
 
ReefCurrent2015 said:
When I got home today, I cut the light on in the HT. Then I inspected the fish really well like I do daily. First let me tell you what kind of fishes they are. 2 domino damsels, 2 bright orange cinnamon clowns (I believe). One ignitus anthius. Both clowns appeared to have a white haze covering them. It's consistant with Brook. Started MS Will update later with pics.
Click to expand...

Actually a white haze is more consistent with velvet.
 
ReefCurrent2015 said:
When I got home today, I cut the light on in the HT. Then I inspected the fish really well like I do daily. First let me tell you what kind of fishes they are. 2 domino damsels, 2 bright orange cinnamon clowns (I believe). One ignitus anthius. Both clowns appeared to have a white haze covering them. It's consistant with Brook. Started MS Will update later with pics.
Click to expand...

FWIW; IME brook is a tricky disease. Case in point: I walked a fellow reefer thru how to do formalin baths on a pair of clowns with obvious Brook symptoms. However, she didn't take my advice to go fallow - she put the clowns right back in the same DT they came out of. To my amazement, symptoms never returned. Flash forward 6 months later, and she moves the tank. The clowns get Brook again, but another formalin bath clears it up and she puts them right back into the DT. It's been more than a month and Brook hasn't come back. :confused:

Then again, sometimes you hear about Brook wiping out an entire tank. So, I'm starting to believe that Brook may be like Uronema (in some cases), an opportunistic parasite that only strikes when "stress occurs" i.e. a fish's immune system has been compromised.
 
snorvich said:
Actually a white haze is more consistent with velvet.
Click to expand...

You're prolly right, but the last time I had velvet it appeared different than this. One brown patch appeared and then another bigger hazy area. It was more brownish dull reddish color. Then it took out my fish rapidly.

Check out these pictures. They're horrible I know, but the best I can do for now. I can say this for 100%. They all had ICH. TTM took it out. 13 days & done.

This is new whatever it is. It's hard to tell. I do believe it's more consistant with Brook. Somebody refresh my momory of Brook symptoms and fish behavior please. The damsels have been hanging out high near surface. Both have a string hanging but I don't believe its poop.





Anthius won't eat and has literally not move from this spot in days.

 
Those pictures are brook. (keep in mind that uronema marinum is almost visibly identical -- for differences, read the sticky part of which is quoted below)

"The major difference between Brook and Uronema is that the lesions associated with Uronema marinum have a more defined margin between the thickened mucus and normal skin that is often red and inflamed. However, the symptoms and treatments are so similar that accurate diagnosis is not required for successful treatment."
 
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Snorvich and Humblefish, my apologies for not updating last night, my internet was down.

So check out these pics. I'm about 80% sure it's Brook now. Like I said before, I've had it a while back.

So let me recap:

Fish broke out in ICH, and were covered in it. Yes, the classic salt-specks. Did TTM and it was eliminated in 13 days. Then noticed a weird skin condition on one of the domino damsels which rapidly got worse fading his color and eventually killed him. The other fish really didn't show symptoms. After a few days, I begin to notice that the damsels were staying up at the surface and by my heater & powerhead. Then, the anthius would not eat or move. Then I noticed a white haze like substance on my red tomato clowns and a slightly bumpy appearce on the skin. Shortly after that, both damsels were carrying strings underneath, that I orginally thought was poop, bet it never fell off. Also noticed all had rapid breathing. Today I can home to a cloudy tank and one dead domino damsel and the anthius dead too.

One thing I do want to note is that I never noticed anything on the anthius. Nothing that could be ID'ed other than she was not eating or moving. Plus Just before her death, she had rapid breathing.

Thank God I QT. I did a 100% water change and dosed 10 drops of Formalin MS 37% to my 5/G. Kinda wondering if I should do some Formalin dips with the recommend higher concentration. Maybe a few fresh water dips as well to relieve symptoms until medicine works. This was how I beat it last time. I will say this, Brook is tough. Again, I'm about 80% is Brook.
 
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