jimmyj7090
aka John K
umm, it was just a thought. I never even saw the Ick on my clowns so I don't really know how they look when they have it.
Saw your local post, bummer.
Saw your local post, bummer.
"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins
- Thread starter Triggerfish
- Start date
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guitarfish
Premium Member
Well I guess I'll check in with an update. I had a coral beauty in hyposalinity for over a month and still had many ich spots, which surprised me, because I've done hypo successfully in the past. So, I switched over to Cupramine, it's been 2 weeks, and the fish is finally spotless.
I'm going to go at least another week, then reassess.
I'm going to go at least another week, then reassess.
hi all,
I have a question on the SeaChem cuprmine dosage. the instruction says to use 1ml for every 10.5gal., the first day then repeat dose in 48hrs. I did a second dose and did a measurement of the copper in water it was approx at .15 on the 4th day. my question is am i suppose to bring the levels up to .5-.6 by now or keep dosing at 1ml/10.5gal till i reach that point. Once I reach that .5 copper is the count of 14days after that of from the date I start dosing?
thanks,
Peter
I have a question on the SeaChem cuprmine dosage. the instruction says to use 1ml for every 10.5gal., the first day then repeat dose in 48hrs. I did a second dose and did a measurement of the copper in water it was approx at .15 on the 4th day. my question is am i suppose to bring the levels up to .5-.6 by now or keep dosing at 1ml/10.5gal till i reach that point. Once I reach that .5 copper is the count of 14days after that of from the date I start dosing?
thanks,
Peter
pecan2phat
Active member
I would keep dosing at 1ml per 10g per day until you reach the .5 level and usually, you will need to readjust cause the solution will still fall out a bit.
Test it on a daily basis after you reach the .5 mark. Their own copper test kits works well with their copper product.
Test it on a daily basis after you reach the .5 mark. Their own copper test kits works well with their copper product.
guitarfish
Premium Member
The 14 days is from when you reach the .5 level. Even at 14 days, you may want to go longer, I go at least 21 days.
Maybe it was a bad kit - but the Seachem copper test did NOT work for me with Cupramine. If I had believed it, I would have badly overdosed my fish. I took it back to the LFS with some water - it read ZERO. When he tried the cheaper Red Sea test it read .5 (exactly what it should have according to what I had dosed). I'd suggest getting another test kit before adding too much Cupramine (or if bought at the LFS, take some water in and see what they find with another test).
Good luck with the treatment!
Good luck with the treatment!
guitarfish
Premium Member
The Seachem kits WILL EXPIRE. Mine was 18mos old, simply didn't read anything. I emailed Seachem, they sent me new reagents.
guyguerra
Premium Member
I spent a lot of time experimenting with the different kits, and lost some fish that didn't need to die by using the wrong test kits. . You can not use a Red Sea test kit with Cupramine and get accurate readings. Plaz, you are correct that the red sea kit will show a level of .5 when the Seachem kit shows less. I believe this why some people do not succeed using Cupramine. They use the wrong test kit. I did so many tests with various kits that I am confident in making this statement. I used Seachem, Red Sea and Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits daily in two different batches of fish. Invariably the kits by other manufacturers show that I was at .5 ppm, when the Seachem kit showed that I was too low. I was afraid to trust the Seachem kit, so I used the Red Sea kit. Consequently, the Ich continued and I lost several fish. I lost 9 fish before I decided to totally rely on the Seachem kit. In no time at all, the Ich died, and the remaining fish are still in my tank, 1 1/2 years later. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals was the worst for Cupramine, yet I like their kits for other types of tests. You will waste valuable time and cause your treatment of Ich to take longer than it needs to, and you will probably kill some fish (like I did) that didn't need to die in the process. You should only use a Seachem kit when using Cupramine, no exceptions. Use the sample water that comes with every kit if you don't trust the kit. If your out of sample water, go buy a new kit. If you have an old kit, go buy a new one. This is CHEAP compared to all the wasted work and time and loss of fish.
Plaz, with only knowing the little you posted here, I would still suggest that you were under the level you should have been with the Cupramine. I worked very hard with all these kits, and had many conversations with the chemists at Seachem. They were interested in the tests I was doing between the different kits also. Their product has other ingredients that will throw off a Red Sea kit. I feel it's wrong to recommend using a different manufacturers test kit to test their product, and will very possibly stretch out what should be an easy process, along with the deaths that occur as the time line increases. I hope I am not coming across negatively, or narrow minded. I just spent a lot of time on this topic and feel I am very qualified to give solid advice on it. I am very passionate and convinced on what I learned about this.
Pecan, you will have to keep adding Cupramine until you hit the .5 level. Don't be afraid to go over. I went over once, up to .8, which is the highest they recommend. The color on the chart is very obvious when you get that high. To remedy it, I just did a partial water change. I brought it down to about .6, and in two days it lowered to .5 by absorbing into the rock and sand. The dosage Seachem gives is VERY conservative. I have had to use twice the amount recommended to reach therapeutic levels, and once 4 times as much (this was in a 120 gallon tank with substrate and old rock) to get the levels set. Just test after every additional dose. I follow the stated procedure for the first two days, then dose daily, and towards the end, when I'm narrowing it down, say from .3 to .5, I will do two doses or more in a day. Then, you'll still may have to do a dose or two once you get it to .5, as some of it will be absorbed into substrate or dead rock.
Plaz, with only knowing the little you posted here, I would still suggest that you were under the level you should have been with the Cupramine. I worked very hard with all these kits, and had many conversations with the chemists at Seachem. They were interested in the tests I was doing between the different kits also. Their product has other ingredients that will throw off a Red Sea kit. I feel it's wrong to recommend using a different manufacturers test kit to test their product, and will very possibly stretch out what should be an easy process, along with the deaths that occur as the time line increases. I hope I am not coming across negatively, or narrow minded. I just spent a lot of time on this topic and feel I am very qualified to give solid advice on it. I am very passionate and convinced on what I learned about this.
Pecan, you will have to keep adding Cupramine until you hit the .5 level. Don't be afraid to go over. I went over once, up to .8, which is the highest they recommend. The color on the chart is very obvious when you get that high. To remedy it, I just did a partial water change. I brought it down to about .6, and in two days it lowered to .5 by absorbing into the rock and sand. The dosage Seachem gives is VERY conservative. I have had to use twice the amount recommended to reach therapeutic levels, and once 4 times as much (this was in a 120 gallon tank with substrate and old rock) to get the levels set. Just test after every additional dose. I follow the stated procedure for the first two days, then dose daily, and towards the end, when I'm narrowing it down, say from .3 to .5, I will do two doses or more in a day. Then, you'll still may have to do a dose or two once you get it to .5, as some of it will be absorbed into substrate or dead rock.
Thanks for the info. I only had the one experience (and am not trying to push Red Sea). I just didn't want anyone to accidentally overdose their fish.
In my case, I had a Salifert which thought might not work with Cupramine, so I bought a Seachem test since it was the same brand. The weird thing is, I measured the gallons and dose to be EXACTLY .5. It sounds like others did the same. Then the Seachem test registered zero (in Pecan's case it sounds like it then measured at .25). The Red Sea measured exactly .5 - just as I had mixed to according to Cupramine instructions.
My question to Seachem would be - why did their instructions not get the copper level anywhere close to what we dosed?
In any case, I'm glad to know the Seachem works (even if the measure doesn't match the dosing amount in the Cupramine instructions). Since mine read zero, it could also have been a bad test - but even if I had bought 2, I wouldn't have known which was right - and if Pecan's experience is an indication, it likely would still not have been as high as the .5 that I dosed, even if it was right.
I do wish all these companies would at least start putting expiration dates on the boxes (to at least knock that off the test list - who knows how long the stores or warehouses keep this stuff)!!!
Thanks for the follow-up. It sounds like you tested enough to understand more about it than I do. It would not be good for anyone to overdose or underdose... so your info should help!
In my case, I had a Salifert which thought might not work with Cupramine, so I bought a Seachem test since it was the same brand. The weird thing is, I measured the gallons and dose to be EXACTLY .5. It sounds like others did the same. Then the Seachem test registered zero (in Pecan's case it sounds like it then measured at .25). The Red Sea measured exactly .5 - just as I had mixed to according to Cupramine instructions.
My question to Seachem would be - why did their instructions not get the copper level anywhere close to what we dosed?
In any case, I'm glad to know the Seachem works (even if the measure doesn't match the dosing amount in the Cupramine instructions). Since mine read zero, it could also have been a bad test - but even if I had bought 2, I wouldn't have known which was right - and if Pecan's experience is an indication, it likely would still not have been as high as the .5 that I dosed, even if it was right.
I do wish all these companies would at least start putting expiration dates on the boxes (to at least knock that off the test list - who knows how long the stores or warehouses keep this stuff)!!!
Thanks for the follow-up. It sounds like you tested enough to understand more about it than I do. It would not be good for anyone to overdose or underdose... so your info should help!
Triggerfish
Active member
i thought the red sea kit only test up to .4?
guyguerra
Premium Member
I am guessing that Seachem keeps their initial dosing toward the low side to prevent potential instantaneous overdosing. This is only a guess and not something I discussed with them. They were receptive to my calls and I will assume would be willing to discuss this with you. they also have a BB on this site. I would be curious to take a container of water that does not have anything in it that could absorb the Cupramine to see if their doing is accurate in a sterile tank. I believe once we start adding the various items that are in out tanks into the equation, the required dosages will need to be adjusted to reach therapeutic levels. I know that from the moment I threw away my other kits, and only used Seachems, my results were consistent. A few days ago I mentioned that I didn't want to treat the current batch of fish that I have in quarantine, but had concerns since one is a Sailfin tang. I have decided that during the last two weeks (which will start tomorrow) of quarantine I will treat them with Cupramine just to be on the safe side.
The goal of this thread is to stop, by all means possible, the introduction of Ich into our displays. I'd rather have a fish die in QT that in my display. This group currently looks good except that I have a Coral Beauty that has lymphocytes. I will scrape that off tomorrow, then do two weeks of Cupramine. After that, I know they can go into my display. Of the four groups of fish that have been in my QT during the last year, two made it with no treatment, one had Ich ( I lost a coral beauty in this group) which was successfully and quickly cured with Cupramine, and the current group (which will be prophylactically treated because of the Tang).
Triggerfish, you are correct that the Red Sea kit only goes to .4. That, and the fact that it doesn't measure Cupramine accurately is why no one should use it for Cupramine treatments. I sent an email to Red Sea about this, but my weak memory isn't pulling up their reply.
The goal of this thread is to stop, by all means possible, the introduction of Ich into our displays. I'd rather have a fish die in QT that in my display. This group currently looks good except that I have a Coral Beauty that has lymphocytes. I will scrape that off tomorrow, then do two weeks of Cupramine. After that, I know they can go into my display. Of the four groups of fish that have been in my QT during the last year, two made it with no treatment, one had Ich ( I lost a coral beauty in this group) which was successfully and quickly cured with Cupramine, and the current group (which will be prophylactically treated because of the Tang).
Triggerfish, you are correct that the Red Sea kit only goes to .4. That, and the fact that it doesn't measure Cupramine accurately is why no one should use it for Cupramine treatments. I sent an email to Red Sea about this, but my weak memory isn't pulling up their reply.
BrianBell1974
New member
Please do not dive bomb and call me an idiot My wife does that enough LOL
I have a purple tang and a kole that came down with ich. I tried hypo and it has not worked so after reading all the controversy about the no sick fist stuff I decided to test it for myself.
I started the application Thursday night and have seen no visible signs of improvement. The product says to use it for 7 days so I will keep you posted if anyone wants to hear how it goes.
Yes I know I am a glutton for punishment but like the kid who touches an electric fence I have to grab it for myself to see if I'll get shocked
Also I was directed to turn off the skimmer, I will guess any ill effects will be from running skimmerless.
I did throw some mushroom rock in there to see how they would respond and they have started to shrivel also with no skimmer I am having trouble keeping my nitrates below 10ppm
I have a purple tang and a kole that came down with ich. I tried hypo and it has not worked so after reading all the controversy about the no sick fist stuff I decided to test it for myself.
I started the application Thursday night and have seen no visible signs of improvement. The product says to use it for 7 days so I will keep you posted if anyone wants to hear how it goes.
Yes I know I am a glutton for punishment but like the kid who touches an electric fence I have to grab it for myself to see if I'll get shocked
Also I was directed to turn off the skimmer, I will guess any ill effects will be from running skimmerless.
I did throw some mushroom rock in there to see how they would respond and they have started to shrivel also with no skimmer I am having trouble keeping my nitrates below 10ppm
It is possible it only goes to .4. It has been well over a year since this happened to me. I do know that I had measured the gallons and dose in a skimmerless QT and that the Seachem test I had didn't register at all. I guess I (possibly like Seachem) may have been trying too hard not to overdose.
Brian, not dive bombing you at all (after all, I once put the float valve back upside down and flooded the tank with Kalk - which luckily clouded the tank enough for us to see it before it wiped out too much
. But you probably want to pull out that rock if you haven't already... and do a big water change with Cupramine matched to the dosage with a SEACHEM test as Guy recommends! Best of luck with the rest of their treatment.
Brian, not dive bombing you at all (after all, I once put the float valve back upside down and flooded the tank with Kalk - which luckily clouded the tank enough for us to see it before it wiped out too much
. But you probably want to pull out that rock if you haven't already... and do a big water change with Cupramine matched to the dosage with a SEACHEM test as Guy recommends! Best of luck with the rest of their treatment.
pecan2phat
Active member
BrianBell,
I tried somewhere in the vicinity of 6+, seven day treatments, went through 5 bottles of the stuff and it ultimately did not work for me. Hope you have better luck then I did.
I tried somewhere in the vicinity of 6+, seven day treatments, went through 5 bottles of the stuff and it ultimately did not work for me. Hope you have better luck then I did.
BrianBell1974
New member
Thanks pecan
This is the 5th day of the no sick fish treatment.
Today I came home to find one of the mushrooms on my rock had turned to mush and was stringy, and a couple others detached and floating around the tank.
Also the Kole looks to be in the same condition as before but the purple tang looks worse than it did before the treatment It still has several spots on it and now looks like it has velvet looking film all over it.
I think I better turn my skimmer back on the nitrates are quickly on the rise.
That's all for now
This is the 5th day of the no sick fish treatment.
Today I came home to find one of the mushrooms on my rock had turned to mush and was stringy, and a couple others detached and floating around the tank.
Also the Kole looks to be in the same condition as before but the purple tang looks worse than it did before the treatment It still has several spots on it and now looks like it has velvet looking film all over it.
I think I better turn my skimmer back on the nitrates are quickly on the rise.
That's all for now
Triggerfish
Active member
Update: Hyposalinity Main tank treatment
Week 2 complete
Fish Condition
> all fish active, eating aggressively, colors are more vibrant
>white patches of infection around gill area are gone
>no more scratching on rocks
>fish health has clearly improved greatly without this parasite eating away at them
Main Tank Condition
>NO3 levels down a bit to around 20ppm
>alk coming down abit as Ca is rising
>more corraline dying off turning white
>forgot about the brittle star that was in there..what a smell
15g Coral holding tank Condition
> recent power outage added more stress to this tank
> I hardly have anything left..frogspawn, hammer that's it.
Hypo Summary
1/8 - 1.009 - spots not visible much on fish
1/11 - no spots visible
1/24 - still no signs of parasite
I'm going to begin to slowly raise the salinity just a bit. hold it there for a week and if things look good continue to do this weekly.
Week 2 complete
Fish Condition
> all fish active, eating aggressively, colors are more vibrant
>white patches of infection around gill area are gone
>no more scratching on rocks
>fish health has clearly improved greatly without this parasite eating away at them
Main Tank Condition
>NO3 levels down a bit to around 20ppm
>alk coming down abit as Ca is rising
>more corraline dying off turning white
>forgot about the brittle star that was in there..what a smell
15g Coral holding tank Condition
> recent power outage added more stress to this tank
> I hardly have anything left..frogspawn, hammer that's it.
Hypo Summary
1/8 - 1.009 - spots not visible much on fish
1/11 - no spots visible
1/24 - still no signs of parasite
I'm going to begin to slowly raise the salinity just a bit. hold it there for a week and if things look good continue to do this weekly.
guitarfish
Premium Member
Woe there triggerfish!! You shouldn't be raising SG yet, it's WAY too early. Absolute mininmum time for hypo is about 23 days after the last spots have vanished, which for you would be around 2/3. And even that's assuming ALL ich got killed the first time around.
There's no harm leaving the fish at 1.009, why the rush?
There's no harm leaving the fish at 1.009, why the rush?
Triggerfish
Active member
figured someone would have noticed that.
i'm getting a bit concerned that all the coralline is going to die off. about 1/3rd has turned white already.
yeah..cutting it close here.
if all Tomonts haven't been killed yet then it will need to go another cycle at least regardless. as the cysts are either viable or have been ruptured prematurely based on a 2 week time frame from maturity to encystment.
tank temp has also been elevated to attempt to speed up cycle for quicker infection rate.
everything else in the tank has been killed by the low salinity.
we'll see what happens.
i'm getting a bit concerned that all the coralline is going to die off. about 1/3rd has turned white already.
yeah..cutting it close here.
if all Tomonts haven't been killed yet then it will need to go another cycle at least regardless. as the cysts are either viable or have been ruptured prematurely based on a 2 week time frame from maturity to encystment.
tank temp has also been elevated to attempt to speed up cycle for quicker infection rate.
everything else in the tank has been killed by the low salinity.
we'll see what happens.
guyguerra
Premium Member
The guy's that own the LFS that I use are good friends of mine, and I spend about an equal amount of time there as I do at home,LOL. I really trust these guys, they are sharp and well educated. I was discussing the physical removal of Lymphocystis when one of the guy's brought up "no sick fish". He said he has used it in the store several times for skin ailments and was pleased with it. I told him I was surprised since I haven't heard of anyone that has had success with it. I will be curious to see if anyone on this thread has success with it. I netted my Sailfin and Coral Beauty and removed the Lymphocystis with my finger nail. I got it all off, so if it stays off for two weeks, they get to go to heaven (the 230 gallon). I am very tough and strict with my QT efforts, and it has paid off several times. The Lymphocystis didn't show up for a while, so I'm glad I waited even though there have been no signs of ich in this group. If any of you get a chance, I am the happy father of 14 more corals in my tank. You can see pics inn my gallery. It's been a FUN week!
BrianBell1974
New member
guyguerra
I wonder which product from nosickfish your LFS used. I used the ich product for the last week and saw no improvement. Actually the case has worsened and lost about 4 green mushrooms.
I wonder which product from nosickfish your LFS used. I used the ich product for the last week and saw no improvement. Actually the case has worsened and lost about 4 green mushrooms.
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