"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

[guyguerra]

Triggerfish, I apologize if there's things I'm not seing, but have you considered buying a bare bones 50 gallon tank with an aquaclear filter and a 3 foot light. It'd be a little work, but the list of fish I see should fit in there. Then you can keep the 125 gallon reef fallow for 6 weeks, and treat the fish with copper in the 50 gallon. Cost might be $400, but then you'll have the tank forever as a back up. I looked in your gallery and your display is beautiful. I don't believe all of your corals are going to live if you subject them to low salinity. By leaving the main tank alone, and moving the fish, in six weeks you'd be back to a nice display again. Again, I don't know the details, but that display looks good. It'd be a big set back to reduce your water quality to your corals to fight the Ich, and the hypo probably wont work anyway. If you do the 50 gallon QT and loose a few fish, so what. But to risk that nice display and all the work you've put into it would be a shame. Your photo gallery looks nice!

Guitarfish. you can see my tank in my photo gallery.
heres my tank (the photo is stiched together so looks a little funky:

Heres the 50 gallon QT, I recommend this to everyone. It has a hang on filter, a small UV, no sump and no skimmer. You can get by without the cabinet and canopy, which keeps the cost down a lot.

 

[jimmyj7090]

Triggerfish,

I'm local if you need a hand with this process. I'm usually pretty busy but I could plan to lend a hand sometime on sunday or next week.

Also, regarding the QT tank suggestion, I have a 75 with stand, sump, ER skimmer, and lights. If you know of someone who would like to adopt a single rabbit fish (the only inhabitant) I would be willing to consider loaning you the QT set up for your treatment.

If your interested in either offer send me a PM on the BRS board since I don't check this thread all that often anymore.

jk

PS, my fish are all still looking 100% after their treatment

 

[Triggerfish]

hey guy- i have a 55g that i used to remove all fish awhile back..
i left the main tank fallow for 8 weeks..i must have introduced a fish back in with the parasite.
the breakdown of the tank, capture of all the fish and resetup made for a nightmare of an eveneing,,hence last resort sort of deal. 24 fish that include open swimmers,cave dwellers,burrowers,schoolers and grazers in a 55g for 6+ weeks with only pvc structures would be less than ideal.

as i mentioned before..all my sps is gone before this anyway..so i'm only left with some lps and polyps basically.. i will be removing those pieces into a 10g that is up and running now. also will be removing as many snails/hermits as i can as there's not that many anyway.

your tank looks awesome..nice and healthy.


jk-thanks for the offer, it's just a draining process,,but i should be able to deal with it. last night i didn't do anything with it as i just couldn't muster the ambition.
corals still in tank at 1.017 and are looking ok right now.
i should be at 1.008 on saturday with most corals moved to the 10g.

this is a good test to see the effects of hypo treatment in a decent size tank with 150+ lbs liverock and 24 infected fish. also there will be some zoos, shrooms and one leather that are attached to rocks that will remain.

let the journy continue.......

 

[guitarfish]

Why I don't like copper

Why I don't like copper

Ya know, I KNEW there was something I didn't like about copper, but couldn't remember what it was until dosing it this week. It makes fish lethargic.

My coral beauty now hangs out in a corner, will pick at food, but doesn't eat near what she used to, and it's only been 5 days. She'll be OK for 14 days I think, but I hate doing this to fish. I remember now the last time I used copper (2 years ago), the same thing happened to my fish. They all survived, however I had a yellow tang who did very poorly. She eventually stopped eating, and even after the copper was removed it took her a week to come around.

I'm using Cupramine, which I believe to be the best copper treatment in terms of stability. I dosed the tank to 0.05 as recommended. Time will tell I guess.

 

[guitarfish]

.

 

[guyguerra]

In one of my recent posts I said I had a cleaner wrasse in there, and was training him to eat. I have had good success with him eating and am very optimistic about his survival possibilities. THEN, I did what we are all prone to do. My buddies at the LFS got a new shipment of fish in today, so they told me they would call my cell as soon as the truck arrived, that way I could pick what I wanted before they were put into their tanks, and I could just leave them in the bags and bring them home. WELL. I fell in love with a sailfish tang, and one of the nicest Coral Beauties I've seen. I also needed a jawfish to round out a pair. So now there are 4 fish in the QT. I'll be keeping a sharp eye out for Ich. This is a nice way to buy fish if you are friends with your LFS. Get there before they are pulled out of the bags, and pick what you want. Thats one less tank they can pick stuff up from. I cant wait to add the sailfin to my display, it's gorgeous! My lone jawfish will be glad to have a buddy too, and of coarse, the cleaner will be glad to be in a tank full of fish. I really hope this groups is clean. I'll let you know.

 

[guitarfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6448113#post6448113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by guyguerra
one of the nicest Coral Beauties I've seen.

No, no, MINE is the nicest...:lol:

 

[guyguerra]

Knowing your integrity, you might be right, but I live in "Guy Land", and even though guy land gets wierd sometimes, it is what is. I will have no trouble getting mine to pose for the camera, as I believe he is of the same opinion! We try not to name our fish until the make it through QT, but we did name this one CB, (no, not for coral beauty, but for the kid that drove for Bonnie & Clyde). Glamore shots to follow. I apologize for being off topic, but sometimes you just have to have fun with this stuff!

 

[Triggerfish]

Update: Hyposalinity Main tank treatment

Finally after 5 water changes within the week the tank is at hypo condition.
what a freakin hassle.
moved all corals to the 10g and then realized after about 3/4 were in,,it was going to be too small..
setup the next size up a 15g..


the left over stuff in the tank is not looking good..shrooms,rics and zoos are all closed and shriveled.
all the bubble algae has basically been zapped as well. good thing i guess.
also,.,lost the xenia in the transfer..it didn't like the drop to 1.017.

the fish seem to be doing tremendously well.. very active and eating aggressively.
the clown doesn't seem to know what to do without the bta..just swimming around like a nut.
i found one of my chromis in my fuge and it's a mystery how he got in there. the intake has a tight strainer on the end.. he may have jumped out of back of tank or overflow and landed in the fuge below?? what a feat eh...

what a difference in the look of the tank..it has that bare reef look to it... just fish and rock..couple dead acros i left in.
Hypo Summary
1/8 - 1.009 - ich is not visible much on fish

 

[Triggerfish]

Update: Hyposalinity Main tank treatment
Week 1 complete

Fish Condition
> all fish active, eating aggressively, colors are more vibrant
>white patches of infection around gill area are gone
>no more scratching on rocks
>fish health has clearly improved greatly without this parasite eating away at them
what a difference....

Main Tank Condition
>tank water has cleared up nicely from the bubble algae die off.
>NO3 levels have risen- 30-40ppm-not good
>overdosed alk to help keep ph from falling. alk over 20!!! calcium way down under 200
>just a bit of corraline dying off

15g Coral holding tank Condition
>disaster struck this tank-some die off resulting in major NH3 spike
> lost all remaining sps, clam,torch,remaining anthelia colony,zoos still closed
>rics, 2 hammers, frogspawn hanging in there

Hypo Summary
1/8 - 1.009 - spots not visible much on fish
1/11- no spots visible

 

[AquAsylum]

Trigger- I am so sorry to see you had to start over. Again.

I haven't had much to say, so I haven't said anything... Since I last posted, I have just been occasionally putting a double dose of either Kick Ich or RxP into the display. I am continuing to feed with garlic soaked/enriched foods. The ich has not worsened, and the hippo (shock!) and clown goby are still the only fish to show spots here and there. The goby has started to look rather thin, which is more alarming to me than spots. So, for now, in month 7 of ich, I'm still hoping for the 12 month theory to hold out and be successful. For any newbies, I tried a strict and complete hypo regimen that didn't work and the ich reappeared just a few days after the fish went back into the display.

We have a couple of rescued fish that have been in QT and are very healthy. I'm worried that the ich might get excited when new bodies are introduced, but we'll just have to see.

Our effort of late has gone into a 300 gallon FW Lake Malawi African Cichlid tank- it is way cool.

 

[markrovner]

Main Tank Condition
>tank water has cleared up nicely from the bubble algae die off.
>NO3 levels have risen- 30-40ppm-not good
>overdosed alk to help keep ph from falling. alk over 20!!! calcium way down under 200

Hey Trigger,

Are you using a two-part additive? After a couple of months of fighting high alk/low CA (actually each were at the opposite ends of their respective ranges), I increased the CA part by 50% and left the alk additive the same. It brought the pH up a couple of points (8.0 to 8.2) and both Alk and CA are in the middle of the normal ranges. Maybe worth a try....getting the alk back down is gonna be a pain.

 

[Triggerfish]

mark..i basically screwed up the dosing..i am using the 2 part. prior to the hypo both levels were right there..380/8

supposedly increasing calc will lower alk.. we'll see.

 

[pecan2phat]

Just as an update for anyone that was interested in my test usage of NSF.

I completed over 6 weeks of treatment (min of six consecutive 7-day doses) and the product has not worked for either my FOWLR or reef tank.

The FOWLR went into hypo mode this past weekend and the reef tank is being left alone. The fish in the reef have no visable signs and are not scratching but frequently pay visits to 6 cleaner shrimps that are in the tank. This leads me to believe that the parasite is still in the tank.
The FOWLR has been a headache since September with different reef safe medications at recommended dosages, 1.5x dosages and even double dosages. Last attempt was with the NSF product.
Seems as if the product does keep the parasite in check but does not kill or eliminate them, hence the longevity with the battle in this particular tank. Visable signs and scratching are gone for 3-4 weeks, then reappears ever so slightly.
I would say I gave it a thorough attempt. I went through 5 bottles, but I will say that the manufacturer (Tyler) has been very helpful through out the 6+ weeks that I was using his product.

I forgot how easy and wallet saving hypo treatment is when you have no corals or inverts in the tank. You don't need to turn off any equipment, just bring the salinity down .002 ppts per twelve hours, watch the PH and wait.

 

[Triggerfish]

yeah,,it is pretty easy..no color charts to analyze 2x/day, no poisoning..lower and wait, like you say.

 

[markrovner]

I ought to offer my own update...

After 2 weeks of Cupramine and 3 weeks now of follow-on QT, my ocellaris (the sole survivor of the ich plague) is such a greedy feeder he tries to nibble my finger when i am putting food in the tank. He has been joined in QT by an equally voracious neon goby, a happy-go-lucky clown goby and a pajama cardinal -- all entering their 4th week of QT.

The display tank (40g) is now fish-free for nearly a month. The micro-critter explosion is unbelievable and I've used the period to happy up the corals and inverts with a wave-maker and a HOB refugium.

Fish will go into display week after next -- will keep you all posted.

Best,
mark

p.s. poured my Kick Ich down the toilet last week. That was like flushing money...

 

[guyguerra]

I've got a batch of fish in my QT right now that have been there for two weeks and so far look good. I normally don't treat in my QT unless I see something. I have a Sailfin Tang in this group, and have read where others always do hypo on all tangs. I know hippo's are a high risk, but how have others done with sailfins. I could run copper for the next (last) two weeks, but I have a cleaner wrasse in the group, which I had in the QT by itself for two weeks making sure I could teach it to eat, which I did. I don't want to risk anything with this cleaner wrasse. The only reason I even thought about buying him was because my buddies at the LFS said they had one that was eating and looked good. Of coarse,, I wanted it, so I've been working with him, to the point where there is no reason he should die. I added the Sailfin, a Coral Beauty, and a Jawfish two weeks after I got him. Theres no Ich showing on anything, though the CB and tang have a white spot each on their fins, which I am told should just be scrapped of when I pull them out of the QT. So, do most people ALWAYS treat tangs, or only when they see something. I know it's an ambiguous question, but if I'm going to do it, nows the time. Here's a picture of the QT with the fish, the jawfish is, of course, under a rock.

 

[Triggerfish]

i don't know,,if it was me after i am 'ich free'..i would probably treat everything with hypo for a few weeks, just for added preventive measure.

 

[jimmyj7090]

Triggerfish,

"white patches of infection around gill area are gone"

Is that a secondary infection or something?

It almost sounds, from that quote, that you might also be fighting amyloodinium or brooklynella in addition to, or instead of crypto? Multiple parisites might explain why this process has been so challenging?


Just a thought
jk

PS, all is still well with my fish

 

[Triggerfish]

i believe it was a reaction to the ich infesting the gill area..that's what will give the fish the biggest challenge to overcome.
also,,couple fish had slightly cloudy eyes a few weeks back..that was from the ich infesting the eyes..it sure was nasty..thankfully the eyes have cleared without issues.