ICH: how to cure it, id it, understand it.

Treating corals and inverts with Cu will kill them; residual copper in the tank and on the rock and substrate will render it useless for inverts going forward.


Hyposalinity treatments in a quarantine tank are sometimes useful for crptocaryon irritans , but there are restitant strains of the parasite. Subjecting a reef tank to hyposoalintiy will kill many of the isontonic organisms(micro biota, and inverts ) and will suppress the biofilter.
 
I'm curious -- do we have any data on tanks that have had ich exposure and have gone untreated? Have we looked at surviving fish a year later and determined if any of the parasite remains?

I ask because another discussion reminded my of an incident in a display tank that I had. The tank contained 2 ocellaris clowfish, a bi-color blenny, a pygmy angel, and a (later introduced) blue tang. The tang came down with ich (probably "came with ich"), which spread to one of the clowns. Those died, but the other fish never showed any symptoms, and the ich never reappeared

This brings up the following possibilities:

1) It wasn't ich.
2) It was ich, but died after being unable to infect hosts with a built up immunity.
3) It was ich, and it hung around in the other fish's gills, waiting for its opportunity to strike a weakend fish or a newly-introduced fish (neither of which happened).

I'm not sure, reading through this thread, whether there is a claim that ich won't disappear on its own (never to return) while fish are still present in the system, or by what percentage of tanks that might be true for.

p.s. It could very well be #3 above, but I'd like to understand, statistically, what the confidence in that number is.
 
Maybe to be more specific: if an episode of ich doesn't kill all the fish in a tank after going untreated, what is the likelihood that an autopsied fish would be positive for the parasite one year later (with no visible outbreak during that time)?
 
So if you get an outbreak in a reef system, you should transfer all fish to a qt and dose there??? As copper is not good for corals, true??? Just wondering... As I have never had an outbreak, but yet preparing for the worse...
Also IF you had a FOWLR with just one fish can you not qt that fish & treat said fish, and let the tank ick die off naturally w/o dosing copper??? Hope you all understand what I am asking... Again never had ick but would like to have answers before it happens, so I am more informed if/when it does... :)
Also what is the timeline of getting rid of ick in a DT without dosing copper (ie no fish)???
 
There is quite a bit about temporary partial immunity and long term survival in the fish disease forum. Several studies are noted as well. The skinny is that exposed survivros may develop a partial temporary immunity and the parsite may expire after a year or two in tanks if no new strains are introduced even if there are fish there to to host it . In theory , a single strain can't reproduce indefinitely without some cross breeding. In my case , years ago crtypocrayon persisted for two years with no additions even though some surviving fish in the sytem showed no symptoms and others only minimal occasional symnptoms. During that time new fish pretreated and free of it were attacked by it when introduced.
 
So if you get an outbreak in a reef system, you should transfer all fish to a qt and dose there??? As copper is not good for corals, true??? Just wondering... As I have never had an outbreak, but yet preparing for the worse...
Also IF you had a FOWLR with just one fish can you not qt that fish & treat said fish, and let the tank ick die off naturally w/o dosing copper??? Hope you all understand what I am asking... Again never had ick but would like to have answers before it happens, so I am more informed if/when it does... :)
Also what is the timeline of getting rid of ick in a DT without dosing copper (ie no fish)???

Yes , treat them in qt. Leave the infected tank fishless for 72 days.Copper will kill corals and other inverts. I'd suggest you stop in at the fish disease forum and read some of the information there .IT's quite extensive.
 
Hi from Australia. Twenty years ago, I had an Ich outbreak in my reef tank. The owner of my LFS, a guy I really trusted told me to use Tri Sulpha. I did and it worked. Two months ago, I introduced a Golden Angel and within days, all fish were covered in Ich. I used Tri Sulpha and it cleared up. The local big mouth on my home forum said that it couldn't possibly work, but it did, I don't know why, as it's an anti-bacterial treatment, but whenever I've had Ich, I have used this and it has worked.
 
Tri sulfa is used for bacterial infections( like septicemia , fin and tail rot, cotton mouth etc,) . Bacterial infections are often secondary to a crytocaryon irritans/ich infestation given the open wounds the ich produces.

Treatment is usually in a quarantine / treatment tank.

There is no reason to think it is directly effective against ciliate protozoans like ich.

I don't consider it safe to use it in a reef reef tank either given it's potential to harm the bacterial balance and perhaps other organisms like some corals and other invertebrates.
 
Tri sulfa is used for bacterial infections( like septicemia , fin and tail rot, cotton mouth etc,) . Bacterial infections are often secondary to a crytocaryon irritans/ich infestation given the open wounds the ich produces.

Treatment is usually in a quarantine / treatment tank.

There is no reason to think it is directly effective against ciliate protozoans like ich.

I don't consider it safe to use it in a reef reef tank either given it's potential to harm the bacterial balance and perhaps other organisms like some corals and other invertebrates.

Well every time I have had white spot, I have used this and it has cleared up, as promised. Must be magic?


:beer:
 
"If you believe in magic" as the song goes I have no argument with that feeling ;reality is less fun though. ;);)

With a proven preventative treatment like tank transfer and quarantine there shouldn't be any "white spot" in the tank to treat every time you have it.
 
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"If you believe in magic" as the song goes I have no argument with that feeling ;reality is less fun though. ;);)

With a proven preventative treatment like tank transfer and quarantine there shouldn't be any "white spot" in the tank to treat every time you have it.

I've had it four times in 20 years.:spin1:
 
Ich is always in your tank, like the mange parasite is always in your dog. Any healthy animal stands a good shot at beating it; hopefully, completely suppressing it.

This aquariast's best advice is get to work. Water change your a** off. Everyday. 10 to 15 percent. As long as it takes. Usually around a month for me. Agitate your substrate just before water changes. Of course, pristine water replacement is critical.

Feed good and feed often. Mysis. Squid. Bloodworms. Quality flake. More Mysis. UV sterilizer running 24/7 will absolutely help. Multiple UV's, if you can. Quarantine? Nope. Proves nothing. Leave a fish alone in a sterile tank, then throw it into your fully stocked reef in three weeks? Really? Have at it. Not for me.

I don't mess with salinity, temperature and sure as heck do not dose or treat. Fallow tank??? Goofy. Let a reef tank sit idle for 70-90 days? Not a chance. Just wave the white flag! Take the tank down and buy a parrot.

I've been keeping fresh and salt tanks for 30 years and have made my mistakes. In EVERY instance, ich appeared due to me adding one too many fish and the ensuing stress. Overpopulating, in my experience, brought the ich parasite out within two days of adding that last fish.

I've had four or five bouts with serious ich. None have ever lasted more than 30 days and I've never lost more than 30% of my stock. Face it, you're going to lose, at least, a couple, but you have an obligation to fight like hell to save the rest.

Ich can be tenacious. I prefer to be just as tenacious in fighting it.

Hypo / hyper salinity, dosing, gaming with temperature, et al, all strike me as way too passive and ultimately are nothing more than "Hope it works" .

Got ich? Good luck and get busy. You'll beat it.
 
It makes me sad that folks allow crptocaryon irritans infestations in their tanks repeatedly ; 4 times,5 times etc and offer advice for others to follow their ineffective methods to cure it . I guess misery loves company.

No ich is very possible with proven methods if one takes the time to study the life cycle of the parasite and how to effectively treat it and a tank with it in it. I haven't seen any in about 9 years in my system which houses over 50 fish .
Anyone who want's an ich free tank can do a little reading and be guided accordingly. There are hundreds of threads , studies and articles The fish disease and treatment forum is a good place to start. This thread may also be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=fish+acclimation



Crytocaryon irritans( marine ich) nothing at like mange(saroptes scabei) btw. Though ,treatment and pevention for ither does involve quarantine of infested animals.
 
Ich is always in your tank, like the mange parasite is always in your dog. Any healthy animal stands a good shot at beating it; hopefully, completely suppressing it.

Ich is always in your tank because you chose to live with it, not eradicate it. A healthy specimen can live through it but its still there. The ich is constantly going through its life cycle still in your system while you have any fish in the tank.

This aquariast's best advice is get to work. Water change your a** off. Everyday. 10 to 15 percent. As long as it takes. Usually around a month for me. Agitate your substrate just before water changes. Of course, pristine water replacement is critical.

With all that wasted work you could of gotten rid of the ich long ago. All that water could of been used for TTM instead of adding back into a ich infested tank. The cysts on your LR and substrate are not removed when you do a water change. Other than increasing your water quality, this does nothing.

Feed good and feed often. Mysis. Squid. Bloodworms. Quality flake. More Mysis. UV sterilizer running 24/7 will absolutely help. Multiple UV's, if you can. Quarantine? Nope. Proves nothing. Leave a fish alone in a sterile tank, then throw it into your fully stocked reef in three weeks? Really? Have at it. Not for me.

In a sense you are just feeding the ich well. Fish eats food, ich feeds off fish. UV sterilizer does help with baddies in the water column but this is something to help your tanks condition not a solution to the problem. No quarantine huh? That is terrible advice. What do you mean proves nothing? Proves that you aren't going to introduce brook, velvet, or whatever else into your main display?? Your idea of QT is just putting a fish in a sterile tank for 3 weeks then dumping it in the DT? I would recommend you research and read up on proper quarantine techniques.

I don't mess with salinity, temperature and sure as heck do not dose or treat. Fallow tank??? Goofy. Let a reef tank sit idle for 70-90 days? Not a chance. Just wave the white flag! Take the tank down and buy a parrot.

Why would you think people who do QT - messing with salinity, temperature, or dosing on your DT has anything to do with getting rid of ich? The purpose of FALLOW is to ensure all ich cysts have completed their life cycle and died off as they could not find a host fish.

I've been keeping fresh and salt tanks for 30 years and have made my mistakes. In EVERY instance, ich appeared due to me adding one too many fish and the ensuing stress. Overpopulating, in my experience, brought the ich parasite out within two days of adding that last fish.

You have had ich for 30 years it appears, it surfaces each time when they stress or may due to many other factors.

I've had four or five bouts with serious ich. None have ever lasted more than 30 days and I've never lost more than 30% of my stock. Face it, you're going to lose, at least, a couple, but you have an obligation to fight like hell to save the rest.

Those 5 instances were just the same infestation surfacing at different times. You never even should lose a single fish to ich if you TTM with new arrivals.

Ich can be tenacious. I prefer to be just as tenacious in fighting it.

:deadhorse1:

Hypo / hyper salinity, dosing, gaming with temperature, et al, all strike me as way too passive and ultimately are nothing more than "Hope it works" .

None of those things are 100% succesful. Some strands of ich can surive lower salinity than your fish can. Raising temperature is for freshwater ich not marine. Although it can adjust their life cycle's time. I suggest looking in the fish disease section of the forum, there are some really good threads on the subject of ich and TTM.

Got ich? Good luck and get busy. You'll beat it.

Yep if you want to beat it you will pull your fish into QT and perform TTM, ultimately putting them in a sterile QT after the process while going fallow on your DT.
 
Hundreds of articles, threads, posts etc on Marine Ich, yet an equally number of posts exist on how to treat it. Somebody isn't getting it OR the solutions aren't fixing the problem. I'm betting the latter.

This a hobby, not a chore. I'm as much interested in reading a 15 page dissertation on the life cycle of Marine Ich, as I am in the life cycle of grass growing.

I know what it is; I know what triggers it; I know how to handle it. Done.

We can only offer what works for us. Granted, my method is a little more basic than most, but it works.

It's not about keeping score - you've had more or less Marine Ich than I did. Great!

Lastly, you're dead wrong about Mange. It absolutely does not jump from dog to dog. Puppies, in particular, are most susceptible after weaning and during shots. I've kept multiple German Shepherds for 22 years and still do. In the two instances mange has appeared, it absolutely has never infected any other dog.

Just another reason to quarantine something, I guess.

My god, what do some of you do when your children catch cold???

Let me guess - quarantine.
 
The tile of this thread is:ICH: how to cure it, id it, understand it.

The above post(#237) offers nothing on either score. Seems like an effort to derail informative discussion to nonsense with inept anoalogies about mange which is nothing like ich in it's life cycle and biology and children's colds which is even worse. Neither of those have any relevance to ICH. Seems to be nothing but uniformed argument for argument's sake without serious thought , heavy in dismissiveness with a taste of thinly veiled insult.
Try to stay on topic. If you don't wan't to make an effort to learn about ICH and how to treat it and prefer to keep it in your tank that's your choice. Advising other's to follow suit is just bad advice,IMO which will lead to unnecessary painful and often lethal infestations.
 
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I was going to say something after the first post, but I'm certainly no expert.
:fish1::hammer:
Even me as a rookie who has no experience with ich knows better than this.
 
Had ick show up on two separate occasions from fish at the lfs but both times it healed. Not sure what i did right other than feed a little more than usual
 
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