ICH: how to cure it, id it, understand it.

[jrozzi]

theres only one way to be sure and that's to stay fallow for the time frame stated in the sticky I think its like 10 weeks.

 

[salty joe]

I read ONLINE in an article called facts about ich that If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has "˜worn itself out' and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months. I assume they mean not taking fish out, and just managing ich for that long. Anyone ever heard of this ?

I read that awhile ago, have no idea if it's true. I suppose it's possible but I have my doubts.

 

[wrasse warlord]

I had a severe ich outbreak when my 55 gallon was just started up I had a lemon damsel and didn't know that they are very territorial so he attacked my coral beauty and killed while also giving it ich before it died the rich quickly spread to the puffer, clown, engineer goby and the other damsel. I put the fish in quarantine and put copper in the water. The puffer and clown had it the worst and didn't make it through the night but the other fish were fine and all is well. I've had to treat a few other fish and they are alive and healthy.

 

[Bivs516]

Ich treatment

Ich treatment

I had a bout with ich and my blue tang and I did a bunch of research and ended up finding reefergil's video on how he battled ich in his display tank. I followed his regiment and also added a UV sterilizer....30 days later ich was gone and haven't had it back yet for about 7 months... I do suggest you check out his video here.

http://youtu.be/ws0QPkEJdWE

 

[billsreef]

Sometimes you (really the fish) just get plain lucky...which is all that can be expected from any so called "reef safe" remedies.

 

[Arrgh]

I have a question about Ich. (I think I might have some staring, but not necessarily related to my question.)

The two schools of thought is that Ich is always present and that Ich has a life cycle that can be broken.

I tend to agree with the ladder (Optimistically).

However sometimes you hear of a fish having a immunity to it, or rather being healthy enough to fight it.
If that is the case could Ich not in fact stay present in a system indefinitely with a fish that is healthy enough to host it? (Perhaps perpetuating the myth that it is always present?)

 

[billsreef]

I have a question about Ich. (I think I might have some staring, but not necessarily related to my question.)

The two schools of thought is that Ich is always present and that Ich has a life cycle that can be broken.

I tend to agree with the ladder (Optimistically).

Ich having life cycle that can be easily broken is scientifically proven However, that does require time and effort on the part of the aquarist.

However sometimes you hear of a fish having a immunity to it, or rather being healthy enough to fight it.

Yes, sub lethal exposure can allow a fish to acquire a limited immunity...only to the particular strain it's been exposed to, and the immunity is lost after awhile with no further exposure to that strain. One must always remember that ich in our little glass box fish houses is much like letting the fox loose in the hen house...it's all to easy for the ich populations to grow to fast and infect the fish to the point of no return before that immunity is acquired. Also a fish that has built a that temporary immunity to that single strain will not have any immunity a new strain that might be introduced.

If that is the case could Ich not in fact stay present in a system indefinitely with a fish that is healthy enough to host it? (Perhaps perpetuating the myth that it is always present?)

Yes. While efforts at lab rearing single strains have proven that reproduction of a single strain will not allow that strain to reproduce after several generations (11 off the top of my head, with only half a cup of coffee), there is no lab work I know of with multiple strains. Considering fish brought in from the wild are likely to be carrying multiple strains on any given fish, fish from different locations are almost certain to be carrying different strains, it's reasonable to assume that we can expect enough genetic diversity in the ich resident in a given tank for that ich population to remain quite viable for a considerable time.

 

[Arrgh]

Thank you.

 

[tmz]

One study suggested 11months witout sexual reproduction for the strain studied. Others say longer as much as two years. Of course if you leave th tank fishless, it dies within a day after"hatching" but the lcysts themselves have remained viable for as long as 72 days in cooler water.

 

[salty joe]

but the lcysts themselves have remained viable for as long as 72 days in cooler water.

Do you know what temp that is?

More specifically, do you know what the ideal temp for ich reproduction is?

 

[tmz]

No, I don't recall the specific temperature range in that study ;somewhere in the high 50F to low 60F range if I recall correctly. I haven't looked at that in a while .

I suspect it varies for different strains of cryptocaryon irritans.

Looking around:

This older study suggests an optimal range for excystment at 30 degrees F,ie 86 degrees C.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2761.1979.tb00146.x/abstract

This is from it:

The optimum temperature for excystment was 30°C; 50% excysted in 5 days and 100% in 7 days. At 25°C, 60% of the tomites started to excyst on the eighth day, and 70% on the ninth day. At 20°C, 10% started to excyst on the ninth day, reaching 40% on the tenth day. No excystment occurred at 37 and 7°C.

This one suggests excystment("hatching") and theront development are significantly slower at 20C(68F) vs 25C(77C):

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3284114?uid=3739832&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104554996797

 

[salty joe]

Thanks, when I finally do get some rock, I'll shoot for the eighties for the fallow period. Getting there, it won't be long now.

 

[tmz]

You are welcome and good luck.

 

[mikeoif08]

I saw that New Life Spectrum came out with a new treatment for Ich. It's called Ick-Shield (1 to 3mm pellets). I've used the Thera-A pellet food before to treat tangs with ich and it had worked for me before (also added a UV sterilizer as well). They also have a powder version to add to a hospital tank for fish that aren't eating. Also the Ick-Shield is suppose to be reef safe when used as directed....time will tell with ppl writing their experience..

 

[tmz]

A quick review from my perspective and experience:

Cryptocaryon irritans is carried into the tank with fish. It causes many fish deaths in closed systems. The odds of getting it from rock or other sites are very very unlikely unless you pop in a piece of rock in from an infected tank,n which case you may introduce a cyst.

Crytocaryon can be kept out with quarantine and preventative treatment. It is very very highly likely you can have a tank free of ich with the reasonable precautions of preventative treatment and quarantine.
Some , will say they have tanks without those measures but it is much less likely. One might cross a busy avenue blindfolded and not be struck by a vehicle but it's much safer to cross at an intersection and be guided by the traffic signal. Better yet is to close the road you choose to walk on to traffic.

Once ich is in a tank it will be there for years even if no new strain is introduced or fish are void of symptoms or present only minor symptoms from time to time. Garlic and other homeopathic remedies or the "reef safe" potions and foods in bottles sold in the hobby won't get rid of it or control it.

Once a tank has ich,the tank needs to be fishless for 72 days for the cysts to expire and fish treated in qt with copper, hyposalinity or my preferred method which is tank transfer.

There is plenty of good information in this thread ; some not so good once you get into personal theories and panaceas.. If you have a problem with ich, I suggest you go to the fish disease forum. The folks there know how to help.

In the meantime this thread may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=fish+acclimation+and+quarantine

 

[Osteoicthyes]

I agree 100% and it seems others agree as well. Ultimately everyone makes a different choice, but I've vowed to never use chemical treatment for Ich again. The damage that it causes to the fish is just not worth it. I commend you on your new outlook! :fish1:

Interesting. In my experience, an ich free tank is possible, without harming the fish.

My experience is that copper, used correctly, is VERY effective. I've got fish over 10 years old that were treated with Cupramine.....tangs, clowns, foxface, Christmas wrasse, six line wrasse, bennies, gobies,

I've helped friends set up quite a few tanks. They ALL utilized copper to completely kill all the parasites before placing them in the main tank. Each one of them had gone through the devastation of losing a tank full of fish to ich and were ready to give up SW, altogether.

 

[tmz]

Cooper works for most. If you don't like meds tank transfer is an equally if not even more effective treatment.

 

[greech]

I recently completed a tank transfer treatment and an overall 10 week QT while my tank remained fallow. I cannot believe how smoothly everything went. Thought the process would be very stressful on the fish but I didn't lose a single fish. The process was probably more stressful on me than the fish .

Now that fish are back in the DT, I am crazy paranoid about adding ANYTHING to the tank. I have corals in a QT tank and they have been there for about 4 weeks now. Do I need to leave the corals in the QT for 8-9 weeks? Any benefit to removing corals off the plugs are gluing them to new/clean plugs? How about adding snails and crabs? My LFS keeps fish in the same system as their CUC.

 

[tmz]

I don't , ( over 50 fish in my ich free system along with hundreds of corals) unless I got the coral from a tank infested with ich.
The chain of custody for most corals won't expose them to many fish or parasites if any for a long period of time;most parasites hatch in two weeks . The parasite cysts don't settle on coral tissue.
The rock or plug the coral is on can be brushed off or sinipped off if you are concerned about any tomites or cora pests like tegastes(red bugs, zoa pox et alia). I think it's a good idea to qt and/ or dip corals for there own pests( like tegastes and acro eating flatworms, etc. in any case. It's possible a cyst may be attatched to a snail shell .I just brush them vigorously before adding them to the tank. I suppose I could qt them and/or pour a little peroxide on the shell .

Nothing is 100% certain but it is very highly likely an aqaurium will a get ich at some point without qt and very highly unlikely when new fish are afforded the proper quartantine and preventative treatment.

 

[greech]

Thanks Tom. I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

I will definitely do the tank transfer/QT on all new fish going forward and of course will dip/QT new corals. Just was hoping to reduce the coral QT time period a little. Thanks again for the tips!