Ich LifeSpan without a Host

[Dmorty217]

At first read it seems 72 days is sufficient but looking deeper into it, I'd go the extra 3 for a total of 75 days fallow.

There are reports in disease books of it laying dormant for 90 days in reefs, and they didn't constitute what a "reef" was so 90 is the bare minimum IMO. The OP of this thread is a personal friend of mine and the tank in question gave me ich on a frag after 9 months... this is why the thread was started since he was skeptical. Since then it has been 10 months fallow now and its confirmed that ich is still present. In this case for whatever reason the ich seems to survive no matter what. Again the stuff in question hasn't had a fish present since January 1, 2016 no question about that

 

[jah hoeva]

So what is the only way to rid an existing system of ich with this information? A complete tear down?

 

[tassod]

So what is the only way to rid an existing system of ich with this information? A complete tear down?

YES - I've said it before and I will say it again, fallow periods are just a waste of time.

 

[fishfreak2009]

Fwiw with my last outbreak of ich I pulled all the inverts and quarantined them separate for 3 months. I actually treated the whole display with copper (leaving the rock and substrate in tank) and redosed copper as necessary to keep levels high enough for treatment. After 1 month symptom free with copper, I added cuprisorb and carbon and ran both steadily for the next 6 months or so for any residual copper leaking from the rocks and substrate. After the inverts spent 3 months in a 40 breeder, I used water from the display to do water changes in their tank weekly, the idea being that the "smell" of the fish would make any cysts hatch. One month of water changes later and the inverts were added back to the display. I haven't had a problem since in the display, but every fish goes through copper and prazi in quarantine, and every invert gets treated with prazi.

 

[ThRoewer]

If you need to have an ich free system then you need to sterilise the tank and prophylactically treat every fish, ideally with a combination of TTM and hyposalinity.
This of course will only work with FOWLR tanks. Shrimp and crabs may be added after they molded at least once and therefore shed all possibly attached cysts.

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[lg2725]

This is all way too advanced for what my brain can handle :headwally:

 

[desjardinii]

Fwiw with my last outbreak of ich I pulled all the inverts and quarantined them separate for 3 months. I actually treated the whole display with copper (leaving the rock and substrate in tank) and redosed copper as necessary to keep levels high enough for treatment. After 1 month symptom free with copper, I added cuprisorb and carbon and ran both steadily for the next 6 months or so for any residual copper leaking from the rocks and substrate. After the inverts spent 3 months in a 40 breeder, I used water from the display to do water changes in their tank weekly, the idea being that the "smell" of the fish would make any cysts hatch. One month of water changes later and the inverts were added back to the display. I haven't had a problem since in the display, but every fish goes through copper and prazi in quarantine, and every invert gets treated with prazi.

This is what I'm doing but will also remove all the LR and sand once the replacement bio filter kicks in. I want to monitor the copper level as accurately as possible. There's also too many critters, pods, worms sponges etc which will increase ammonia levels. The LR and inverts will go into a tub or smaller tank for as long as it takes. If the treatment goes well I may even do just fish only with dry rock at first as I never want to try to live with Ich again. This week I have lost 5 out of 9 fish, all were extremely fit, well fed and raised from juveniles. The newest addition now deceased, had been in my tank for several years. I have been lucky up until this point but now have copped a big lesson for not quarantining.

 

[microlady]

Every post like this I have read has come from reintroducing a fish using hyposalinity as a treatment method. (at least the ones that have specified which method they use). I have also read countless times that hypo is the harder of the methods to pull off, and that some ich strains are resistant to hypo. Any input? Can anyone chime in on properly performed TTM or copper/cupramine that reintroduced after 3 months and had it return?

I did TTM. Twice. It's still there.:headwally:

 

[microlady]

YES - I've said it before and I will say it again, fallow periods are just a waste of time.

Fallow periods can knock parasite numbers way down, and they are necessary if you've had velvet or brook. Crypto, not so much.

 

[microlady]

This is what I'm doing but will also remove all the LR and sand once the replacement bio filter kicks in. I want to monitor the copper level as accurately as possible. There's also too many critters, pods, worms sponges etc which will increase ammonia levels. The LR and inverts will go into a tub or smaller tank for as long as it takes. If the treatment goes well I may even do just fish only with dry rock at first as I never want to try to live with Ich again. This week I have lost 5 out of 9 fish, all were extremely fit, well fed and raised from juveniles. The newest addition now deceased, had been in my tank for several years. I have been lucky up until this point but now have copped a big lesson for not quarantining.

This doesn't sound like crypto to me. Your fish should be immune by now and the original strain should have probably died out.

 

[desjardinii]

Had all the classic symptoms of Ich just a lot worse than I've ever seen before. I believe it has lived alongside the fish the entire time, may not be the original strain? as this tank's been set up since 2001. One of the survivors, a Tang believe it or not, is well over 20 years old now and as tough as they come, seems to be immune from everything...

 

[tassod]

Fallow periods can knock parasite numbers way down, and they are necessary if you've had velvet or brook. Crypto, not so much.

Why would you say they are necessary if an alternative would be to break down and sterilize the tank? I would think the latter is much more 100% full proof than waiting around for 6+ months hoping the parasite is gone.

 

[ThRoewer]

If sterilization of the tank is an option (no wild live rock used and no corals or inverts in the tank) I would recommend that over going fallow. Timewise it's a wash, but the outcome of sterilization and cycling again is more predictable than going fallow.

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[OzIA]

Is there a recommended process for breaking down and sterilizing a tank? Can I save the rock or sand if I follow certain protocols?

 

[ThRoewer]

You would need to sterilise everything in the tank.
The easiest way would be draining out the saltwater and then fill the tank with freshwater and let it run like that for a week or two.
You could also use bleach, but that might be much harder to neutralize later.

I would think long and hard about this before going nuclear on a reef tank.

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[microlady]

Why would you say they are necessary if an alternative would be to break down and sterilize the tank? I would think the latter is much more 100% full proof than waiting around for 6+ months hoping the parasite is gone.

Some of us like to try fallow periods first before we decide to nuke everything.

 

[OzIA]

At this point, i have already broken the tank down. The corals, and rocks with corals attached have been put in a tank which will be fallow for 90 days. I have put the fish through tank transfer protocol and I now need a longer term home for them (90 days). The target tank has been completely broken down and the rocks dried for about a week. The sand, I have in a bucket. Should I put the rocks back in or leave the tank empty? Oh, the sump was also broken down and dried. I plan to monitor the NH3 levels with a Seneye and do automatic water changes while running zeolites until the biological filter gets going.

 

[OzIA]

I feel like it would be better if the rock was added back to the tank as it would provide an place for the nitrifying bacteria to live but I don't want to deal with the possibility of ich, reoccurring.

PS: Wouldn't new live sand have the possibility of contaminating a tank if it carried the tomont stage?

 

[Dmorty217]

I feel like it would be better if the rock was added back to the tank as it would provide an place for the nitrifying bacteria to live but I don't want to deal with the possibility of ich, reoccurring.

PS: Wouldn't new live sand have the possibility of contaminating a tank if it carried the tomont stage?

Yes anything "wet" can potentially bring in disease

 

[OzIA]

Care to qualify "wet"? How long would rock need to dry in order to be considered safe? I assume this would vary, based on the type of rock. Even though I removed this rock a week ago, I can see that it still contains some moisture. The tips are crusty but deeper crevasses probably still contain a certain level of moisture.

As for the live sand, wouldn't the shipping and storage time count as fallow? Of course the question is, when did it get packaged. CaribSea puts a use by date and states a one year shelf life.

I guess I am still hoping there is a recommended process?