karimwassef
Active member
I think temperature does impact growth rate
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/icdc7/proceedings/abstracts/mcneil1HI75.pdf
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/icdc7/proceedings/abstracts/mcneil1HI75.pdf
ideal temperature for a reef tank? 82-84 F
- Thread starter Elliott
- Start date
karimwassef
Active member
Peter Eichler
New member
Where did I or anyone else say it doesn't?
Peter Eichler
New member
I haven't read what you posted word for word, but from what I have read I'm having a hard time determining how you've come to that conclusion.
coralsnaked
New member
Nay! That's mostly to find the oxygen, as temp affects the oxygen saturation in temperature bands.
karimwassef
Active member
Look at figure 3 in the paper
Peter Eichler
New member
I did, and I can't see how you can possibly come to the conclusion you have based on what is in section 3.
karimwassef
Active member
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/84B51325-9E49-4B9A-860B-109C3F0B4192.png_zpsv2w85li2.jpeg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/84B51325-9E49-4B9A-860B-109C3F0B4192.png_zpsv2w85li2.jpeg" border="0" alt=" photo 84B51325-9E49-4B9A-860B-109C3F0B4192.png_zpsv2w85li2.jpeg"/></a>
karimwassef
Active member
? what does that mean?
Orcus Varuna
New member
I'm new to these reefing forums but have to chime in on this subject because there is so much miss information out there. As some back ground I have a B.S. In Marine Science and have worked on multiple research projects concerning marine water chemistry and have many friends still performing great work in Marine bio, Chem, and geology fields.
First off from my experience, temperature and salinity are the factors that effect coral health the least. Sure there are upper/lower limits to both but from what I have observed they are the least important. As an example, the healthiest looking reef I have ever personally seen was off the coast of Egypt during an undergrad research trip. We tested water temperatures ranging from 89-92 degrees and salinity ranging from 37-40 ppt (using laboratory grade equipment). This reef had no signs of stress or bleaching
The purpose of this research trip was to compare the reefs of Florida to a healthy reef know to exist in similarly extreme temperature/salinity conditions. Before we did any testing the first thing that became apparent Was the clarity of the water and the turn over that occurs there. This point leads me to what I (and those that are still continuing coral bleaching research) is ultimately responsible. High nutrients, low oxygen and water column stagnation.
The NSF is currently funding some great research correlating hypoxic conditions and high nutrients to coral bleaching events. Google dissolved oxygen and coral bleaching to find the most recent paper by Jennifer Smith and andreas Haas it's a great read for anyone interested. Also, There is another paper due to come out soonish by a competing consortium of researchers confirming this and taking it a step further to directly draw in nutrient levels and salinity. This project is being completed across multiple universities around the world with many branch off papers to follow. It's a combination of laboratory tests (reef tanks set up every conceivable way) and field data from bleached and unbleached reefs around the world. It is expected it will show a very persuasive case that temperature and salinity are important but it's really the factors I listed above that drives reef degradation. It's really cool stuff!
What all of this means and I guess the point of this post is, if your temp and salinity fluctuate like normal (temp 76-84 degrees and salinity between 33-37) your tank will be fine as long as you keep your Nutrients in check and your water achieving high turnover. Always remember though the reason most people see algae outbreaks when their tank warms is they don't have enough surface turnover to compensate for the lower oxygen capacity water has when it warms,and they continue to feed just like they did at 77 degrees. Thus aerobic bacteria growth slows building nitrogen/phosphorous based nutrients in your water causing the algal bloom to compensate and use the avaliable nutrients. The movement/turnover that oxygenated your water and your @ 77 degrees and the feeding habits you had at that temperature must be different at 84. This is the biggest mistake most reef owners make, they change nothing.
When it's the middle of the summer in florida my house warms to 80 (I can't stomach the ac bill otherwise haha) and my tank to the mid 80's (highest it's ever been was 90 when my ac broke last year). I personally add a small HOB filter with no media (to reduce its flow) and shim it up to create a waterfall into my tank. Also, I reduce feeding by about 30% to avoid excess nutrients that would have been broken down (by my larger bacteria population) at 77 degrees. With this set up I have never had any issues with my corals, fish or algae outbreaks on my tank.
Well I typed this all on my phone at the airport so I hope It came out well and helped resolve some of the misinformation I always see in these forums on this issue. Let me know if you have any questions or want me to elaborate more.
First off from my experience, temperature and salinity are the factors that effect coral health the least. Sure there are upper/lower limits to both but from what I have observed they are the least important. As an example, the healthiest looking reef I have ever personally seen was off the coast of Egypt during an undergrad research trip. We tested water temperatures ranging from 89-92 degrees and salinity ranging from 37-40 ppt (using laboratory grade equipment). This reef had no signs of stress or bleaching
The purpose of this research trip was to compare the reefs of Florida to a healthy reef know to exist in similarly extreme temperature/salinity conditions. Before we did any testing the first thing that became apparent Was the clarity of the water and the turn over that occurs there. This point leads me to what I (and those that are still continuing coral bleaching research) is ultimately responsible. High nutrients, low oxygen and water column stagnation.
The NSF is currently funding some great research correlating hypoxic conditions and high nutrients to coral bleaching events. Google dissolved oxygen and coral bleaching to find the most recent paper by Jennifer Smith and andreas Haas it's a great read for anyone interested. Also, There is another paper due to come out soonish by a competing consortium of researchers confirming this and taking it a step further to directly draw in nutrient levels and salinity. This project is being completed across multiple universities around the world with many branch off papers to follow. It's a combination of laboratory tests (reef tanks set up every conceivable way) and field data from bleached and unbleached reefs around the world. It is expected it will show a very persuasive case that temperature and salinity are important but it's really the factors I listed above that drives reef degradation. It's really cool stuff!
What all of this means and I guess the point of this post is, if your temp and salinity fluctuate like normal (temp 76-84 degrees and salinity between 33-37) your tank will be fine as long as you keep your Nutrients in check and your water achieving high turnover. Always remember though the reason most people see algae outbreaks when their tank warms is they don't have enough surface turnover to compensate for the lower oxygen capacity water has when it warms,and they continue to feed just like they did at 77 degrees. Thus aerobic bacteria growth slows building nitrogen/phosphorous based nutrients in your water causing the algal bloom to compensate and use the avaliable nutrients. The movement/turnover that oxygenated your water and your @ 77 degrees and the feeding habits you had at that temperature must be different at 84. This is the biggest mistake most reef owners make, they change nothing.
When it's the middle of the summer in florida my house warms to 80 (I can't stomach the ac bill otherwise haha) and my tank to the mid 80's (highest it's ever been was 90 when my ac broke last year). I personally add a small HOB filter with no media (to reduce its flow) and shim it up to create a waterfall into my tank. Also, I reduce feeding by about 30% to avoid excess nutrients that would have been broken down (by my larger bacteria population) at 77 degrees. With this set up I have never had any issues with my corals, fish or algae outbreaks on my tank.
Well I typed this all on my phone at the airport so I hope It came out well and helped resolve some of the misinformation I always see in these forums on this issue. Let me know if you have any questions or want me to elaborate more.
Last edited:
Orcus Varuna
New member
As an aside the reason I ignored the article on temperature, carbonate and acidification is our systems are closed and lower carbonate levels are a non issue. We control the pH in our systems and provide more then enough dissolved carbonate to compensate.
Nor_Cal_Guy
New member
Thank you for the contribution.
Dennco2000
New member
I am raising my temp up this weekend from 77-78 to 79-80 and then finally it will float between 80-81 next week. Not sure if anyone mention this but I would highly advise anyone that does not...... to have an aquarium controller or some sort of fail safe inline with their heater. My heater is set to shut off at 84F and I use my Digital Aquatics to maintain and adjust the temp, it also has an audible alarm. BTW in a month I'll follow up on how my corals and fish are doing.
crimsonblue
New member
How did your temperature change affect your corals and fish? Any noticeable change in growth or behavior?
karimwassef
Active member
My tank varies from 75 to 83. It's ok.
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/259FD0C5-A47D-4D96-B039-8BAEC1B9E828_zpsrggr2nj6.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/259FD0C5-A47D-4D96-B039-8BAEC1B9E828_zpsrggr2nj6.png" border="0" alt=" photo 259FD0C5-A47D-4D96-B039-8BAEC1B9E828_zpsrggr2nj6.png"></a>
EB9 is the current to my metal halides (largest source of direct heating) for reference
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/259FD0C5-A47D-4D96-B039-8BAEC1B9E828_zpsrggr2nj6.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/259FD0C5-A47D-4D96-B039-8BAEC1B9E828_zpsrggr2nj6.png" border="0" alt=" photo 259FD0C5-A47D-4D96-B039-8BAEC1B9E828_zpsrggr2nj6.png"></a>
EB9 is the current to my metal halides (largest source of direct heating) for reference
CindyK
New member
After reading similar thoughts about higher temps I turned my heaters up just 2 degrees, from 78 to 80 and brought on a cyano outbreak that I still haven't beat. Not arguing that warmer temps may be better...but if your reef is happy, I would say let it be.
karimwassef
Active member
I think warmer temps bring out inherent weaknesses in your reef. It does it faster too.
If your waste is unmanaged or gas diffusion is low, raising your temp exposes it all.
If your reef is really healthy, it can run at 86 without issue.
If it's weak, it'll eventually die at 77.
If your waste is unmanaged or gas diffusion is low, raising your temp exposes it all.
If your reef is really healthy, it can run at 86 without issue.
If it's weak, it'll eventually die at 77.
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