Identify this black clownfish?

[aandfsoccr04]

I think it's important to not have any defects in a fish before purchasing it. Color is great but I want a genetically perfect fish with great coloration. It can be done without being a wild caught, you just have to have patience.

 

[ChrisBWoodysRee]

yup it can be done without a wild caught but a wild is a good example since it has a perfect body shape and no defects...

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[Lou Young]

WOW! Thanks for all of the info. on the clown. I would never have know that clown had any defects. It "looked" great to me. Can you guys post a side by side comparison of a wild caught clown and the one above to show me the differences so I know what to look for? Thanks.

 

[OrionN]

 

[ChrisBWoodysRee]

Nice pair of extreme picassos in your avatar.

I talk to my local dealer a lot about his philosophy on clownfishes as he's a collector. He says way too many defects are getting into the open market because of $$$ and this give captive bred a bad name. He works with lots of breeders and many can't even see the imperfections or chooses not to acknowledge them. The whole idea of breeding is to breed for perfection, not to breed for $$$ (hopefully, I don't step on too many toes with that comment).

If breeders would breed for perfection in both form and pattern, we won't be having all these debates about wild caught or captive bred. I'm a supporter of captive bred, but not imperfections.

i dont think its necessarly the breeders fault sorry if i misspelled that lol but if someone comes down and says "can i take that fish?" most people say it has a few defects but its your call you cant come back at me if i tell you its defected... its the customers descision if they want it they should take it since the breeder warns them...

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[D-Nak]

i dont think its necessarly the breeders fault sorry if i misspelled that lol but if someone comes down and says "can i take that fish?" most people say it has a few defects but its your call you cant come back at me if i tell you its defected... its the customers descision if they want it they should take it since the breeder warns them...

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I think the point is that a breeder should know when to cull. This way a perspective buyer never sees a fish with defects.

I realize that this type of debate can go on and on. I've always told myself that my goal is to provide awareness -- both to the consumer and the breeder -- that consumers should be looking out for defects and that breeders need to know that others are looking with a critical eye at what they're producing.

 

[temper76]

I thought this thread was the guy trying to find the place or person WHO has them not changing the guys taste ,you guys kill me lol!!! I know on youtube you can contact kmaintl or RRcg50 they usually carry them there the information you were looking for sir good luck.

 

[phender]

As a former breeder I can tell you that almost 100% of the defects you see in designer clowns has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with the environment/nutrition of the developing larva.
Breeding clowns is easy. Raising the babies is a little harder. Raising quality clownfish without deformities takes some experience and dedication to your task. A couple of the breeders I see these days do a pretty good job. Most are obviously just in it for the money or just don't know any better.

 

[phender]

a question: how do you tell the difference between genetic defect and poor rearing technique with developing larva? whether genetic defect or poor rearing technique, many breeders see $$$ is why they keep culls.

When I first started raising clowns (1990's) about 40% of my babies had moderate to severe deformities(pushed in nose, flared/missing gill covers, odd body shape, washout color, etc.) When I started to do more water changes, use green water in the rearing tanks, supplement the rotifers and newly hatched brine shrimp with Selcon, use better food with astaxanthin(sp?), I was able to get about 99% of my babies to be indistinguishable from WC. Since the genetics of the parents didn't change, it had to be environmental.
I have to laugh at hobby breeders that get all excited about being able to buy the same food that they use in commercial hatcheries, when the hatcheries that use that food routinely produce fish with washed out color and deformed heads. Cheaper is not usually better.

 

[OrionN]

Phil,
Did you ever use Golden Pearls? Back in the late 1990's and early 2000's an expert highly recommended it. I am thinking of ordering it for my baby clowns but thinking about it now I don't know if he recommended it becasue they give him money or he thinks it was really good. As far as I know, he never raise any clown or other ornamental fish.
TIA

 

[phender]

I did like the Golden Pearls. They were easy to use and the fish liked them. By far the best food isn't being made anymore (at least not by the same people). It was called "Vibra-Gro" made by Harbor Branch (or something like that). It was one of the first foods that contained astaxantin and was amazing. I think Red Sea bought them out and then ORA started marketing it, but by then it wasn't the same stuff.

If you can get food containing Natu-Rose, that will be your best bet for producing babies with good color.

 

[oceancube1]

Minh , send me your onyx please!!! lol

 

[ChrisBWoodysRee]

Phil,
Did you ever use Golden Pearls? Back in the late 1990's and early 2000's an expert highly recommended it. I am thinking of ordering it for my baby clowns but thinking about it now I don't know if he recommended it becasue they give him money or he thinks it was really good. As far as I know, he never raise any clown or other ornamental fish.
TIA

golden pearls work really well the clowns love them! and it gives em their black coloring

 

[Lou Young]

At what stage are you suppose to feed the golden pearls?

 

[Reef*freak]

I start feeding golden pearls at 3 1/2 weeks

 

[Lou Young]

I start feeding golden pearls at 3 1/2 weeks

Until when? And what is the benefit of it versus the regular food at that stage?

 

[elegance coral]

Can you guys post a side by side comparison of a wild caught clown and the one above to show me the differences so I know what to look for? Thanks.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...NX4ZcDONkaZmkQvIY5gNbCuQ&ust=1367150432613519

The fish in the link above (not mine ) is the perfect percula. A poster of that fish should be on every breeders wall. Note how the lips line up perfectly. The face is nice and rounded like the front end of a nuclear sub. The sides of the fish are smooth, with no indication of where the spine is, or any other lumps, indentions, or defects. In profile, the outline of the fish is nice and smooth, roughly oval shaped, with no sharp defects. The fins are all proportionate to the fish size. Percula typically have short dorsal fins, at least in relation to ocellaris, but many CB perculas have abnormally short dorsals, or other fins that are out of proportion. The muscle between the dorsal and head is nice and full creating a smooth line between the skull and dorsal.

 

[elegance coral]

Can you guys post a side by side comparison of a wild caught clown and the one above to show me the differences so I know what to look for? Thanks.

Sorry Minh. I really mean no disrespect, but that is neither a wild caught perc, or one that should be used as a standard by which we judge others. It is your typical, deformed, captive bred, percula. Nothing more. I probably wouldn't have culled that fish, but it surely doesn't set any standards for the species.

The pic's below are horrible, but at least they show how percula body shape should be. The skull is rounded with no deformities. The lips line up perfectly with no protruding jaw.

 

[OrionN]

EC
You got high standard. Other than the Jaw, can you give further critics regarding my fish. i will not be offended.
I sold that fish so I don't have him anymore so I cannot post a better picture of him. The only problem I see in that picture is the mouth. I post that picture because it was a handy picture at the time to point out the different between the OP picture VS a typical Onyx, mainly the body shape and the fins size.
But, it you look closely you will see that the mouth look abnormal due to the fact that it is open at the time the picture was snapped, which cause it not to look smooth. You can see clearly that this is the case by the space between the two lips and the angle of the lower jaws to the rest of the body. There is no protruding jaw in real life. What you see is just an artifact of the photo.
I am sorry that I am not able to provide an update picture of this clown. He was sub adult at the time. I sold him as a premium Onyx clown to one of the clown breeder who no longer in the hobby. I am not sure where he ended up.

 

[OrionN]

Angel of which the picture was taken will often give false look to a clown. An example of this is in a nephew of my fish pictured below:

This fish the baby cousin of the . As far as I can tell looking at this baby fish, there is no jaw deformity but the second picture seem to show a protruding jaw. Why? I think there are some blurriness and the angle is the problem. I don't see in real life the bad looking jaw show in the picture.