importance of measuring orp?

SPotter

Active member
So I failed chemistry and now wish I had paid more attention. I purchased an orp probe a year ago when I set up my tank and I think its time to replace the probe so I am wondering if I really need to measure this. For the longest time my orp level would range between 380 and 400 but lately it has been sitting around 450. I have recalibrated it a few times and it goes right back up to 450. I have read articles about orp and while I understand what the normal ranges should be, I really dont understand anything else about it. So my question is, do I need to monitor it and should I buy a new probe?
 
Nope....virtually nobody measures it or worries about it. Plus the relavance in the SW setup really doesn't seem to be totally decided or understood.

I have the ORP probe as part of my apex & seems to hover in the lower 400's & just after a WC drops to like 380's I think. I really never pay attention to it Let alone even understand it. If or when the probe goes,no idea if ill ever get another one.
 
The only place where it is really important is if you are running ozone. With ozone, the orp tells you when to cut it on and off.
 
I usually see drops after wc's or when I feed phytofeast but it usually bounces right back up within a few hours. I figured if it was that important there would be more recent articles about it and why you should monitor. I know if you running ozone then you should monitor orp but I dont run ozone nor do I plan on it. I went a little crazy when I bought my apex and just started adding all of the extras.
 
Drops will occur after organic additins like food, vodka, vinegar,vitamin C. It will move inversely to ph fluctuations. What is the ph of your tank? When it's low orp whill be higher.
I run an orp monitopr because I have it even though I ultimately chose not to use ozone. I don't think it's very important but wide fluctations can give a clue if something is going on in the tank.
 
my ph has dropped with the house being sealed up now and it ranges 7.8 to 8.0 daily. I am hooking my co2 scrubber back up to get my ph range back up over 8 even though my current range is ok.
 
450mv at 7.8ph sounds a bit high for a tank without ozone.
 
Randy provides details regarding orp in this article which you may be interested in: ;)

Orp and the Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.php

I tried reading that today but was a little difficult while at work. Im pretty sure i understand what causes orp to drop but not sure about what causes it to go up. Its one of those crazy things where im learning that or is something not to worry about but since my apex can monitor it I may as well monitor it. If i couldn't monitor it I wouldn't think about it.

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Randy explains in the article that you have two Armies fighting each other. The Oxidzers increase the orp and the reducers lower the ORP.

From his article the simplified version: ;)

"Simplified ORP

Imagine a reef aquarium as a vast battlefield. No, more vast. Much, much more. OK, that's ORP. That is, ORP is a measure of who is winning and who is losing the battle. The battle is never won by one side or the other. As an aquarist, you do not want it to be, or else everything in the tank would be dead. In other situations, such as the purification of tap water for drinking, allowing the oxidizers to win is fine. A high enough ORP (650+ mv) can kill most bacteria in a few seconds.

On one side of this aquarium battle there are the oxidizers. They all want to get electrons, and they rip them off of the bodies of the enemy. The foot soldiers of the oxidizers are oxygen molecules (O2). Did I say the battle is vast? On one day last week, there were 342,418,226,849,748,675,496,726 of these little guys roaming my aquarium, looking for action. Some of these are paratroopers, arriving at the aquarium out of the air. Others are made in secret labs, otherwise known as photosynthetic organisms such as many corals and algae.

Unfortunately, despite their vast numbers, the oxygen molecules are not very effective fighters. In many cases, they can swarm all over the enemy and still not prevail. The true leaders of the oxidizers are far less numerous, but considerably more potent fighters. These include ozone (O3), hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), triplet oxygen (3O2), and a variety of oxygen radicals, some with such inspiring names such as superoxide radical (O2-). They also include chlorine (Cl2) and chloramine (NH2Cl). It turns out that oxygen molecules (O2) can occasionally morph into some of these better fighters (such as hydrogen peroxide), sometimes all on their own, but most frequently when they get blasted with UV light.

The oxidizers also have other types of fighters. Some are present at very low concentration, but are so sensitive to the state of the battle, that one can gauge the battle by how many of them are left standing at any given point in time. Metals, for example, such as iron (as ferric ion, Fe+++) can serve this purpose. The other oxidizers also include anions such as hypochlorite (ClO-), iodate (IO3-) and nitrate (NO3-), among a host of others.


On the other side are the reducers. The reducers all want to get rid of electrons, and they virtually throw them at the oxidizers. Many of these are organic molecules. They are not as numerous as the oxidizers, but many are much larger. Some are more than 10,000 times as large as an oxygen molecule. So they can make up for low numbers with pure brawn. That is not to say that the reducers do not have small but potent soldiers. The antioxidant vitamins, like vitamin C, for example, are small but extremely potent reducing agents. The reducers also number on their side some inorganic compounds, such as ammonia, iodide, and a really nasty fellow, sulfide.

The reducers come from fish food, metabolic waste products, the breakdown of dead organisms, and certain additives put into the aquarium (e.g., iron supplements that contain ferrous ion). The surfaces of most organisms themselves enter the fray as reducers, waiting to be oxidized by the enemy.

Interestingly, most soldiers on both sides are suicide attackers. Oxygen, ozone, and hydrogen peroxide are all destroyed when they react with a reducer. While not strictly suicidal, most organics are heavily damaged by oxidizer attacks, and are slowly degraded, eventually ending up as carbon dioxide if oxidized enough. They tend to be found in areas that the oxidizers hate; that is, in areas of low oxygen. Yet, the reducers are also sneaky, and even manage to get their hands inside cells (even finding positions in photosynthesis itself)."

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FWIW this is Randy's recommendation regarding using ORP:

"So is ORP measurement and control recommended for nonscientists who also happen to be reef aquarists? My suggestion is no. There are interesting things to learn by measuring ORP, and I recommend that everyone with any interest read the following sections to better understand it and decide for themselves if it is worth doing or not. Nevertheless, I have not measured ORP in my aquarium for years, despite having the tools at hand. It is simply not very high on the list of things that one can usefully do to maintain a high quality reef aquarium, in my opinion."
 
Ok makes a little more sense to me now. And if i understand this correctly, my elevated nitrates that i have been fighting for a few weeks could be causing my elevated orp levels. Sound right?

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ive never done it. I know several folks who have done it and dont anymore. I think it is a waste of $$ that is better spent on four-finger rings and gold teeth.
 
I gave it a good cleaning last night and move it to an area that has more flow in the sump based on what neptune suggested as a good location for the probe. It immediately dropped to 250 and is slowly working its way back up which is what it has always done after cleaning. Currently its at 300 so I will keep an eye on it for a few days and see what happens.
 
Mine stays at 280-335.. no ozone just weekly 15-20 gal water changes..

280-320 is a much more accurate ORP for natural seawater. If you are reading anything much higher than that without dosing ozone, then your probe is not accurate. An ORP of 400 mV would end up killing fish, and when using ozone anything above 350 is questionable.
 
Well, people reports levels over 400 mV fairly frequently, although it's hard to say how accurate the meters are. For our purposes, I'm not sure ORP is worth measuring, and I haven't been very tempted to get a meter. If I were running ozone, I'd get one, though, as a safety measure.
 
I doubt 400mv will kill fish , the ocean has values from 0 to 450.
I use a monitor . It's part of a controller ,I purchased when I was planning to use ozone. I still don't use the ozone but monitor orp. It runs around 320 without ozone. I watch it for clues which may indicate a buildup of organics,as I dose organic carbon. but it's not a very precise indicator. It will drop after dosing vinegar , vodka ,aspartic acid ,etc. but bounce back in a few hours.. It will also drop when the tanks are cleaned and organics become suspended in the water. It will rise with nitrate. All in all it's just reassuring to see it steady and any significant swing may indicate something worth investigating is happening in the system.
 
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