Intelligent Design / Natural Filtration

[Subsea]

I'll bite. "Natural filtration" a.k.a. cultivating organisms for nutrient export, has always been a sub-set of reefing, and has its origins in the planted aquarium world. (hi-tech planted aquariums are nearly as extensive as reefs.) However, the examples of "natural filtration" that usually furnish the conversation are larger aquariums which have been established for many years. It's true that many large, old, successful aquariums run with little to no protein skimming, but that's because they are large, and established. Our water to bioload volumes are so astronomical compared to the natural reef that anyone who attempts to start an aquarium on "natural" techniques alone is more than likely doomed to disappointment. We need the "hi-tech" mechanical and chemical filtration because our bio loads for a given water volume ratio is so high.

First, I don't do natural filtration for nutrient export. I set up complex food webs and recycle nutrients by feeding fish and coral.

I have 25 reef fish in my 75G Jaubert Plenumn on top with mixed soft corals and LPS.

What do you call a high bio load that requires hi-tech mechanical and chemical filtration?

 

[H2OCulture]

Very cool!! That's approaching "aquaculture" in terms of density! But, yes, that's the level of density I was referring to, nicely done if you're doing it naturally.

Quick question, if you are setting up food webs, have you used anything besides Phyto to increase the levels of copepods in your aquarium? I always wondered about dosing yeast, but have yet to try it.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Subsea]

Very cool!! That's approaching "aquaculture" in terms of density! But, yes, that's the level of density I was referring to, nicely done if you're doing it naturally.

Quick question, if you are setting up food webs, have you used anything besides Phyto to increase the levels of copepods in your aquarium? I always wondered about dosing yeast, but have yet to try it.

Thanks for your reply!

Phytoplankton and pods are one food web. Typically, yeast is used to feed roitfers, which would feed pods. In my mud filter/refugium I allow unfiltered display tank water to deposit detritus to feed numerous worms and things. These detrivores reproduce and feed tank filter feeders.

40% of body mass of free swimming bacteria is phytoplankton. Corals and algae both eat bacteria.

http://www.livescience.com/7618-bacterial-banquet-ocean-algae-eat.html

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/aboutcoraldiseases/a/What-Do-Corals-Eat.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/eb/index.htm

 

[Nano sapiens]

I'll bite. "Natural filtration" a.k.a. cultivating organisms for nutrient export, has always been a sub-set of reefing, and has its origins in the planted aquarium world. (hi-tech planted aquariums are nearly as extensive as reefs.) However, the examples of "natural filtration" that usually furnish the conversation are larger aquariums which have been established for many years. It's true that many large, old, successful aquariums run with little to no protein skimming, but that's because they are large, and established. Our water to bioload volumes are so astronomical compared to the natural reef that anyone who attempts to start an aquarium on "natural" techniques alone is more than likely doomed to disappointment. We need the "hi-tech" mechanical and chemical filtration because our bio loads for a given water volume ratio is so high.

^^ Unfortunately, this is a common misconception stated by various individuals and groups within this hobby. My old medium sized 55g ran without any mechanical/chemical filtration (just Live rock and live sand) for 9+ years before I downsized to a small 12g...which is fully stocked and has been running for over 8 years using the same 'natural filtration' methodology.

In the 'nano' reef tank world, there are examples of relatively large biomass to what most would consider tiny volumes of water using 'natural filtration' methods (only live rock and live sand) that have run for many, many years. As with most reef systems (but especially important for these small tanks), some hobbyist intervention is required via regular water changes and detritus removal if one wants the system to be at it's best.

 

[AlSimmons]

Couldn't you just grease up your elbows and do the work? Keeping a happy healthy reef tank for years on end in not that difficult if you are willing to do the work. (no refugiums, no ATS etc)

Just as an example. if you were to walk into that MACNA and see two healthy tanks right next to each other. Both of the owners have been given all the bells & whistles. The guy on the left is all about a KISS, the guy on the right is all about that "technology." Who would you rather talk to? It sounds to me like the guy on the left has got more money in his pocket. It's kind of like chess. Why win in 10 moves when it can be done in 5? If that's not an "Intelligent Design" then I don't know what is.

 

[Subsea]

Bugs Rule! Fascinating how research is proving some of the observations and conclusions of aquarists like Paul B and Steve Tyree. Rohwer's "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" is an excellent place to start. The stuff done by Dr. Andreas Haas* showing the roles algae have in promoting heterotrophic (oxygen depleting) microbes and corals promote autotrophic (oxygen enriching) is a real eye opener on natural filtration in our systems.
De Deoij's** cryptic sponge research may be a bit off topic but proves Tyree's ideas on cryptic zones.

*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23882445
**http://www.rug.nl/research/portal/files/14555035/13completethesis.pdf

Yes indeed, bugs rule. I would have thought that Steve Tyree's cryptic zone filtration included bacteria as much as sponges.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Yes indeed, bugs rule. I would have thought that Steve Tyree's cryptic zone filtration included bacteria as much as sponges.

It does, indeed. The point can be made, however, that any mature and healthy reef aquarium ecosystem with a decent amount of live rock has lots bacteria and sponges in both the display tank and filtration areas (if they aren't regularly removed). Perhaps what set's Tyree's method apart is the sheer quantity of these organisms that can be cultivated in a dedicated cryptic zone and the resulting increase in coral nutrient sources (live/dead sponge cells, additional nitrates due to sponges harboring significant numbers of nitrifying bacteria, etc.).

 

[Nano sapiens]

The Natural Reef Aquarium is a great book!

Absolutely! One of my favs

 

[photoblepharon]

While I think that foam fractionators are unnecessary to maintain a reef tank, they would be detrimental to a NPS tank biotheme

Can we see pictures of a nice NPS tank that doesn't use a skimmer?

 

[Subsea]

Can we see pictures of a nice NPS tank that doesn't use a skimmer?

Because of my computer illiteracy I can't post pictures. link removed if you Google skimmerless NPS reef tanks,you can find numerous examples.

 

[photoblepharon]

Not seeing any nice looking NPS tanks on your website.

Google results for that phrase returns back one result that actually fits the description. It's a very nice looking 10g tank that's a year old with no update after that. Lots of water changes and media changes.

 

[Subsea]

Not seeing any nice looking NPS tanks on your website.

Google results for that phrase returns back one result that actually fits the description. It's a very nice looking 10g tank that's a year old with no update after that. Lots of water changes and media changes.

In my 45 years of reef keeping, I have had various NPS in my mixed reef gardens. All were skimmerless, but not NPS biotheme.

 

[Subsea]

Not seeing any nice looking NPS tanks on your website.

Google results for that phrase returns back one result that actually fits the description. It's a very nice looking 10g tank that's a year old with no update after that. Lots of water changes and media changes.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/1/aafeature

Charles Delbrick curator for the Wakaki aquarium shows skimmerless NPS tanks.

 

[photoblepharon]

I know Charles Delbeek well. He no longer works at the Waikiki Aquarium, but there are plenty of big skimmers there. They also have access to natural sea water and can make their tanks open system if they need to. Not really a very applicable example to closed systems.

I still haven't seen a nice skimmerless NPS tank.

 

[Subsea]

I know Charles Delbeek well. He no longer works at the Waikiki Aquarium, but there are plenty of big skimmers there. They also have access to natural sea water and can make their tanks open system if they need to. Not really a very applicable example to closed systems.

I still haven't seen a nice skimmerless NPS tank.

https://************.com/2012/09/16/sundays-coffee-reefs/

Excuse my ineptness with computer posting. If this link does not work, then google Mark Van Der Wal, skimmerless with SPS and NPS dominant reef tank.

PS. The link I provided is at Reef Builders web site.

 

[Subsea]

I know Charles Delbeek well. He no longer works at the Waikiki Aquarium, but there are plenty of big skimmers there. They also have access to natural sea water and can make their tanks open system if they need to. Not really a very applicable example to closed systems.

I still haven't seen a nice skimmerless NPS tank.

As I read the advanced aquaria article by Charles Delbeek, there was no reference to big skimmers on the NPS tank. Yes the Waikiki Aquarium has access to NSW.

 

[ayrkpatrickla]

The Natural Reef Aquarium is a great book!

 

[photoblepharon]

As I read the advanced aquaria article by Charles Delbeek, there was no reference to big skimmers on the NPS tank. Yes the Waikiki Aquarium has access to NSW.

It says right in the article there is a continuous flow of natural seawater through the tank. This makes it pretty inapplicable to closed system aquariums.

 

[photoblepharon]

It's a link with a description but no pictures.

 

[Subsea]

It's a link with a description but no pictures.

What exactly are you looking for? I never said that I had NPS biotheme tanks. I said that skimmers would be detrimental to a NPS biotheme tank.

Also, if you googled Mark Van Der Wal, you would find a skimmerless SPS/NPS tank on the Internet.