Interesting attack on Randy's two part

Hi :-)

I try to understand your posts and understand why some of you thought that we want to do a attack against different systems. i never want to attak anybody or any system here or on other places. There is really no reason for me :-)

I have no idea why the words aluminium or such things are coming in the explanation i only can think that there was some missunderstanding between the products which are on the market
in my knowledge there is a baking soda to buy which contains a aluminium salt as an help for better baking.

http://www.enotes.com/chemistry/q-and-a/why-aluminum-baking-soda-45179

@ tatu

I start with my reef works when i was 14 years old , and after short time we change the Classical Balling System to an easier way , that is the reason why i called it later Balling light.

i want to show the people that it is a quite similar system but with easier use.

The complete system included not only the pure salts today
we add some Biopolymers ( which make at the first batch some smaller problems) and a specific trace element mix which helps to stabilize the chemical system and brings benfit for coral grow and water quality.

After the knowledge of the brown color i change all buckets which i can get and change the chemistry.
While the developement of the products i also make sometimes small mistakes
this happens and i can only say sorry that iám not 120 % perfect
We use very clean salts and the different of that is best to see in ULNS systems where to much unwanted Trace elements can brings problems.

There are a lot of technical quality on the market which will be sold also for big money and this rubbish technical stuff is defenitly not good for reef tanks.

I have a 6 month old daughter and did not look on every forum and tread at the moment so iám sorry if anybody feels cheated due to some to emotional postings.

Iám also here with my sponsorbord for every question and discussion for that people which want it.

many greetings from germany Claude
 
"Does arm and hammer add the minerals required for balling success?."

IMO, an obvious retort is, how would we know? Unless you tell us what is in that supplement, we cannot answer whether it is present as impurities in Dowflake, Baking soda, Epsom salts, MAG flake, etc.

And if anyone does want to add such things, why not just buy the trace elements supplements that you think you "need"?
 
I have no idea why the words aluminium or such things are coming in the explanation i only can think that there was some missunderstanding between the products which are on the market
in my knowledge there is a baking soda to buy which contains a aluminium salt as an help for better baking.

http://www.enotes.com/chemistry/q-and-a/why-aluminum-baking-soda-45179

That link seemingly has confused baking soda and baking powder. They are very different beasts.

Food ingredients in the US must list all intentionally added ingredients, regardless of final concentration. Baking soda contains no added aluminum.

Baking powder contains many things, which can include aluminum, although some big brands are listed as "Aluminum free". Still, the main ingredient is calcium phosphate, so it is of no use to us.
 
Man i just checked out there forum there and read a post about they're amazing Fauna marin t5 units they were releasing, these guys at aqua digital are so full of b.s., that thread got closed also for obvious reasons,
 
Hi Randy

I only try to explain why this could be written
i personaly never say that aluminium is inside
i hope it was understand correctly

rgds claude
 
Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I have no idea why the words aluminium or such things are coming in the explanation i only can think that there was some missunderstanding between the products which are on the market
in my knowledge there is a baking soda to buy which contains a aluminium salt as an help for better baking.

http://www.enotes.com/chemistry/q-and-a/why-aluminum-baking-soda-45179

That link seemingly has confused baking soda and baking powder. They are very different beasts.

Food ingredients in the US must list all intentionally added ingredients, regardless of final concentration. Baking soda contains no added aluminum.

Baking powder contains many things, which can include aluminum, although some big brands are listed as "Aluminum free". Still, the main ingredient is calcium phosphate, so it is of no use to us.
Click to expand...

damn you beat me to the punch on the B powder Vs B soda :)
 
Hi Randy

I only try to explain why this could be written
i personaly never say that aluminium is inside
i hope it was understand correctly


OK, I understand. :)
 
FWIW, I used the Google English to German translator and the same word comes up for the German translation for baking soda and baking power: "Backpulver" ;)

It is also interesting that when you search the word Backpulver and then translate it to English, the encyclopedia describes baking powder.
 
Last edited:
Maybe, but they clearly use the words baking soda in the thread. If the article said baking powder, or his replies did I would go with that.
 
I've read through the balling write ups regarding the "special salts" et alia. Aside from the trace elements, all I think I see is potentially some additonal control over chloride additions.vs using calcium chloride and sodium bicorbonate,
 
luther1200 said:
Maybe, but they clearly use the words baking soda in the thread. If the article said baking powder, or his replies did I would go with that.
Click to expand...

Claude has stated in the past that he uses a translator to try and understand what we are saying. When you get into the technical terms used on the forums, especially in the Chemistry Forum, this can be very difficult to do. Everything adds up if they think baking soda is actually baking powder to them. :)

I wonder if there is a separate word in German for baking soda?
 
According to Babblefish, Baking soda = Backensoda

and

Baking Powder = Backpulver

If I remember correctly from my days living in Germany, I would see both products on the store shelves.
 
Hi

I think you missunderstand something

the words the posting was made by my distributor and it seemed he is missunderstanding some chemical informations.

So i must explain him more abou the different facts.
I try to explain why the words come in this this tread and i say sorry for that.
I know the different between backing powder and baking Soda and bicarbonate very well ;-)

I produce around 100 tons of salt mixes for balling every year it will be
very dangerous not to know what i do

german words are

Baking powder = Backpulver
Sodium bi carb = Natriumhydrogencarbonat = Natron
baking soda = SODA = Natriumcarbonat = Natrit


I hope that the issues are now ok , it is not nice to read that we try to cheat the user cause this is defenitly not correct .

The kind of use , the mixes of salts , Biopolymers and Trace Elements in the balling light version are our idea , close to 2 part but not exact the same.

We can discuss about trace elements and their benefit to corals, there are a lot of meanings about it and we have also a lot of discussions about it here in germany .
Here in germany meanwhile over 80 % use the balling system and this with great success.
There we have our experience .in thousands of tanks over more the 20 years now.
 
Hi Claude!

C. Schuhmacher said:
the words the posting was made by my distributor and it seemed he is missunderstanding some chemical informations.
Click to expand...
And that is the problem, not so much your products :thumbsup:

I know many of you already know what the "Balling" method means but here's the definition (as far as I know):

1. 71.5 g CaCl2 + 5 ml Trace element mix 1 & 2 to 1 liter of water
2. 84 g NaHCO3 + 5 ml Trace element mix 3
3. NaCl-free salt mix

Trace element mix 1:
243.45 g SrCl2.6H20
356 mg BaCl2.2H20
Dissolve to water for final volume of 1 liter

Trace element mix 2:
4 g FeSO4.7H20
324 mg CrCl2.6H2O
185 mg MnSO4.H2O
98 mg CuSO4.5H2O
89 mg NiSO4.6H2O
88 mg ZnSO4.6H2O
4 mg CoCl2.6H2O
Dissolve to water for final volume of 1 liter

Trave element mix 3:
13.3 g NaF
2.5 g KI
Dissolve to water for final volume of 1 liter

The composition for the element mixes were determined by Mr. Balling after a careful study of wild and aquarium grown coral skeletons.

Most people I know do not bother with the original trace element mixes because they either use other trace element products or they just think that trace elements is not something they want to add. Much has changed (most of all salt mixes and amount of feeding) since 1996 ;)

I guess one problem is that the "Balling method" now means many things. For example, magnesium was not part of the original method and on the other hand, many people have dropped the NaCl-free mix from their dosing because of much more frequent water changes in modern reef aquariums.

ps. Claude, I never thought the incident with the one batch of your CaCl2 mix was something to worry about (although a lot of people got angry). Mistakes happen and IMO it's naive to assume otherwise ;)
 
Sorry for my mixup, it was that teenager from Netherlands (Habib Sekha) who studied coral skeletons. Mr. Balling used studies of marine carbonate minerals.
 
german words are

Baking powder = Backpulver
Sodium bi carb = Natriumhydrogencarbonat = Natron
baking soda = SODA = Natriumcarbonat = Natrit

While my German is poor, I think that is not correct from the English side.

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) = sodium hydrogen carbonate = Natriumhydrogencarbonat
Washing soda is sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) = Natriumcarbonat

When folks say "baked baking soda", they mean sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) that they baked themselves at home to produce sodium carbonate

We have no reef uses for "baking powder", which has many varied ingredients.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
dosing question
Replies
1
Views
99
kharmaguru
kharmaguru
revclyburn
What brand of salt are you using
Replies
5
Views
2K
AZBigJohn
AZBigJohn
P
New saltwater toxic?
Replies
8
Views
160
pelagic
P
skipper03
first saltwater aquarium, weird 15g setup, many questions
2 3
Replies
47
Views
509
skipper03
skipper03
griss
pH - Thought I'd Share This
Replies
5
Views
2K
BuckeyeFish
BuckeyeFish
Back
Top