Is it just me ?

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No one is getting hate mail because of this debate. That's about the most hilarious thing I ever heard. Stop trying to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view. You're no crusader, just another guy complaining about the price of coral. It's not a grand conspiracy, just the reality of the coral selling industry right now. If you are as righteous as you claim to be, then put your money where your mouth is and give away cherry polyps to people on this thread. Send me some and I might even shut up and joint your protest.
 
i have to agree with mucho big time on this on how these "rare" zoas are selling for huge amounts when they are rather common.

i mean purple hornets they are selling for atleast $25pp(cheapest ive seen) yet i see 3-4 ads selling them a week from different sellers which means that a ton of people have them and are therefore growing well and common. if you go through the classifieds on here i will be you that you will find atleast 2-3 threads selling "rare" zoas per week that have alot of the same kinds for sale from different sellers. now how is it that 2-3 people a week can be selling zoas and have them still be rare?

Thanks.

You're right, but so many people don't know they're common. The ones that do will do everything they can to stop you from speaking up and out.

We had a big discussion on that polyp a few months ago, many were shocked to find out that that polyp didn't just show up this year. That polyp and very large colonies just like it have been around for well over 10 years or more. There was a time when that polyp in a colony form, sat in LFS for month. I mean months. No one would buy them. Then someone said they discovered it. Then somebody gave them a name, told a big lie, said they were rare, took super macro pics under heavy actinic lighting, created big hype threads to get everyone excited and talking and BOOM, everybody wanted them. A GOLDMINE. I will find the actual thread and send it to you.

Does anyone want to share their large colony pictures?
 
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A lot of it is greed and if someone (few people I actually know) sells something for cheaper they actually get messages and calls like in two instances from a friend of mine that they are going to devalue the coral, they will not ever sell to them again (true story) etc etc. Kinda sad wouldn't you agree?

Wow, that is really sad that someone would attack them with hate mail and calls for selling something for what it's worth. Can't believe he got personal attacks for giving someone a good deal. I agree, kinda sad.
 
Mucho, you need to take off the tin foil hat. There's no conspiracy going on, just a basic free market. Who cares if someone is making money off coral? I learned a long time ago that nothing happens in this world without a dollar changing hands. This is a reality of the world we live in. If someone can make a few bucks on the side doing something they enjoy, why not, isn't that the American dream? I think everyone realizes that it costs about the same at the collection level to score the latest greatest chalice as it does for an plain zoa. Not everyone needs the "LE" or whatever you want to call them polyps. If you're into that and you're willing to pay for them, then who are you to tell them they're doing something wrong.

Mucho, you seem to have been around the hobby for a long time and probably forget more than I know. I respect you for that, but it seems your favorite topic is telling people not to pay more than a $1/polyp for anything.
 
70 posts , only one large colony ? and those (no disrespect ment ) were tubb blues.
I have seen thousands of posts with pictures of really exotic colored zoas on discs ....isn't anyone letting them grow out ?


I'm confident that they will start showing up soon. Keep the faith my friend, they're out there somewhere.
 
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Thanks.

You're right, but so many people don't know they're common. The ones that do will do everything they can to stop you from speaking up and out.

We had a big discussion on that polyp a few months ago, many were shocked to find out that that polyp didn't just show up this year. That polyp and very large colonies just like it have been around for well over 10 years or more. There was a time when that polyp in a colony form, sat in LFS for month. I mean months. No one would buy them. Then someone said they discovered it. Then somebody gave them a name, told a big lie, said they were rare, took super macro pics under heavy actinic lighting, created big hype threads to get everyone excited and talking and BOOM, everybody wanted them. A GOLDMINE. I will find the actual thread and send it to you.

Does anyone want to share their large colony pictures?

It's so funny you mention this. The PPE's in my avatar actually come from a colony that was purchased long before Perun named them and they were POO BROWN!!! They were very common in the hobby and still are. True PPE's will turn brown with a very faint green mouth or no green at all. Literally one of the ugliest corals you might see at a LFS. Yet, introduce them to ideal conditions, whalah! PPE's
The same goes for many of the named corals. In fact, a lot of the named corals are the same corals that morphed with slight variations.
I knew this when I used to participate in the name game.

YET... I am not against a hobbyist trying to make a buck, but I used to give away as much as I sold just to make up for all the coin I pocketed.;)
 
It's so funny you mention this. The PPE's in my avatar actually come from a colony that was purchased long before Perun named them and they were POO BROWN!!! They were very common in the hobby and still are. True PPE's will turn brown with a very faint green mouth or no green at all. Literally one of the ugliest corals you might see at a LFS. Yet, introduce them to ideal conditions, whalah! PPE's
The same goes for many of the named corals. In fact, a lot of the named corals are the same corals that morphed with slight variations.
I knew this when I used to participate in the name game.

YET... I am not against a hobbyist trying to make a buck, but I used to give away as much as I sold just to make up for all the coin I pocketed.;)


I agree and don't have a problem with a reefer making a buck off of a polyp or frag. What many people, including myself have a problem with, is gougers making $ 30, to $ 200 off of a single polyp or frag. There's a major difference. My hats off to you for giving back by giving some away. Thanks for sharing this BTW.

Mucho Reef
 
True, some people will and do take advantage. Yet, most of the people that I know that were suckered into paying some really high price for a named coral were also extremely impulsive and 9 out of 10 times do not last very long in this hobby.

I've been here over 10 years and I've been in the hobby even longer. Shoot, I remember bringing Arabian Macro Algae from the Dead Sea to an Aquarium society meeting in the mid 90's and watching the auction for it go thru the roof because it was named. The difference was ALL of the proceeds went to the Aquarium Society.

Us old timers have to stick together Mucho, these whippersnappers have no respect! hahaha JK ;)
 
I agree and don't have a problem with a reefer making a buck off of a polyp or frag. What many people, including myself have a problem with, is gougers making $ 30, to $ 200 off of a single polyp or frag. There's a major difference. My hats off to you for giving back by giving some away. Thanks for sharing this BTW.

Mucho Reef


So it's OK to make a little money, just not a lot? Sorry, but I can't follow that line of thinking. Stuff is only going to sell for as much as people are willing to pay for it. As far as buyers go, caveat emptor, just like anything else. If you don't do your research before buying then it's your own fault.
 
+1

not to mention that we do not live in a society where goods and services are just given away. I appreciate my lfs and vendors who struggle to make a living doing what they love. If corals were free, then first these guys would go out of business and then importation would cease and I don't think anyone wants that.
 
True, some people will and do take advantage. Yet, most of the people that I know that were suckered into paying some really high price for a named coral were also extremely impulsive and 9 out of 10 times do not last very long in this hobby.

I've been here over 10 years and I've been in the hobby even longer. Shoot, I remember bringing Arabian Macro Algae from the Dead Sea to an Aquarium society meeting in the mid 90's and watching the auction for it go thru the roof because it was named. The difference was ALL of the proceeds went to the Aquarium Society.

Us old timers have to stick together Mucho, these whippersnappers have no respect! hahaha JK ;)


Reef Junkie, that is a very sad testimony to hear. Like the PM I just received, a lot of people don't know they are being taken advantage of. SOME do and don't care because they are only going to spend $ 100 for a polyp which they know is an outrageous price, but they pay it anyway. Why? They will watch that single polyp on that single round frag plug and as soon as a polyp grows next to the one they have, CHOP CHOP, it is fragged off of a frag and placed on another round plug to be sold for $ 100. This is why you don't see many colonies. It's much too profitable to keep chopping than to just let them grow, by SOME.

If you know of people being "suckered", have them read this thread or do a search in this forum on LE, limited edition, rare, names, naming, gougers, gouging, exotic, pimpin, sky high prices, sky high pricing etc.

Fragging as a means of controlling growth or growing frags from ones own frag tank to sell in the selling forum is what we have done for tens of years to make a few dollars to help subsidize the cost of reefing if need be. But with sky high prices, lies, false claims, hype, misleading statements claiming something is rare, new on the scene, just released, limited edition etc, are all means to get you excited to make those impulsive purchases as you spoke of above. As one reefer just told me, "I never knew they were sold in every color imaginable for $ 15 to $ 25 a frag loaded with polyps". Many people just didn't know. Now ask yourself JK, why would someone want to pay $ 100 per polyp that use to cost $ 2 a polyp, all because of a name and claims of, "oh, it's just supply and demand". The supply has always been here as well as the demand. Just do a search in the selling forum or any other forum on the net on sales prior to 2006. Note all of the selling which went on for years with $ 15 frags of most anything and lots of polyps on that frag. Reefing as it relates to zoas and palys is now actively known as retailing, and this is why you don't see any colonies. Excessive fragging, premature fragging, improper fragging, improper care and chop shopping as soon as a polyp sprouts.

This isn't just about so called LE frags, which don't exist BTW. This is not about rare or hard to find polyps. This gouging is running like wildfire throughout the hobby. I stopped by a LFS and the most basic common polyps on the market, that have a name, were attached to as single and double polyp frags to a round frag plug. You see this price gouging has trickled down to all polyps.

Note the push back against lowering these prices back to where they were. It has been stated time and time again, you can't compare sps or lps with zoanthids and palythoas. Zoas and plays grow overnight. Sps and lps take months and many years to produce even a frag to sell. Do you see the overhead/cost difference? But this is the excuse so many have given to keep these prices sky high.



THE MOVEMENT CONTINUES.

IF anyone has colonies to share, we'd love to see them.
 
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Note the push back against lowering these prices back to where they were. It has been stated time and time again, you can't compare sps or lps with zoanthids and palythoas. Zoas and plays grow overnight. Sps and lps take months and many years to produce even a frag to sell. Do you see the overhead/cost difference? But this is the excuse so many have given to keep these prices sky high.



THE MOVEMENT CONTINUES.

IF anyone has colonies to share, we'd love to see them.


Have you kept LPS or SPS? Montipora, Seriatopora, Acropora yongei, Duncanopsammia, Caulastrea, and Acanthastrea all grow like weeds and can be fragged often.

Have you heard of Holocaust Deniers? This is similar: Coral Cost Deniers.
 
I asked what exactly is in and no reply? I say someone just post some pics of colonies haha. OP- Can it be last seasons most trendiest polyps?


At this point, I don't think it really matters. The OP just wanted to see colonies of anything. I think we all do. When prices drop back down to $ 15 for a frag of several polyps, maybe then we will begin to see those large colonies on a daily basis like we use to. Don't know about you, but I truly miss seeing them.

If the excessive fragging, premature fragging, improper fragging, improper care and chop shopping as soon as a polyp sprouts is diminished, I truly believe more colonies will be revealed. At least lets cross our fingers and hope so.

Mucho Reef
 
What is hot right now you'll see colonies next year lol it's that simple enough supply price drops people grow them out. there are plenty of $15 frags out there.
 
Mucho, I have stuck by your side on many topics in the past, but this crusade is probably your boldest.

This is a great country we live in and even though we have a socialist president, don't be fooled. We run on capitali$m.

I honestly appreciate that you're spreading consumer awareness, but these are grown adults we're talking about that are either too ignorant or just don't plain care about getting a good price.

Also, how far do you want to take this? Where is the line between acceptable and too much? You realize whole industries are built around this reef hobby.

I for one want these price gougers here. They fuel this hobby and weed out the weak.

I seriously hope you only partially succeed with your movement.

I for one am against communism. I don't think garbage men should be paid as much as doctors.;)

Cheers
 
not true, you cant price gouge marshmellows because if one company jacks their price there are 30 other companies who wont raise their prices so the one company just goes under. now if one company jacked their prices way up and then one by one the other companies raised their prices the same then there would be no way we could get around the price gouging and would have to pay the price if we wanted some marshmellows. that is what is happening in this hobby one person decides to sell a certain zoa for a huge amount of money then they grow them out and decide to make their money back 10x over so they sell them for the frags for the same price they bought them for because they know the can make alot of money on them. well once everybody has them nobody drops the rates because everybody can still make a ton of money off them. this can be proven with my PH example earlier, there are tons of people who have them and sell them but they are still going for an incredibly high price for how easily they are found now

But if nobody wanted to pay a premium for marshmallows, then stores would lower their prices. Without a willing or captive market, prices can't stay high like you're describing.

"now if one company jacked their prices way up and then one by one the other companies raised their prices the same then there would be..."
That wouldn't happen. if one company jacked up their prices, the other companies would get more business. Final price would be somewhere between original price and Jacked Up price, but only a little higher than original because "one company" rarely affects the market so much. That only happens in a monopoly or an oligopoly. This isn't the case with zoas.

plus, its a perishable product. you gotta sell or risk losing your stock. hard to hold out when you are caring for 'living product'.
it's Demand. willing buyers. That's what's causing the skyrocket prices.
 
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