Is metal halide dead?

I have used M/H lighting for many Years. Just recently decided to try led's. I "will" keep my M/H fixtures just in case!
 
Nope!

We have definitely seen an increase in metal halide lighting sales in the past 18 - 24 months.

Both on lighting systems and replacement bulbs.

Many of these customers are hobbyists who switched to LEDs and have switched back to Metal Halides.

Their stories are usually very similar: their LEDs that were supposed to last 50,000 hours have already died, their coral growth is not very good under LEDs, they don't like the disco effect they get from LEDs, their LEDs burned their corals, they aren't saving the money they thought they would, etc.

We sell all types of lighting - metal halide, LEDs, T5 HO, T12 - but when something works as well as metal halides do for a reef aquarium, there is a reason why hobbyists use them.
 
Hamilton Tech said:
Many of these customers are hobbyists who switched to LEDs and have switched back to Metal Halides.

Their stories are usually very similar: their LEDs that were supposed to last 50,000 hours have already died, their coral growth is not very good under LEDs, they don't like the disco effect they get from LEDs, their LEDs burned their corals, they aren't saving the money they thought they would, etc.
Click to expand...

This may be the case for some LED units, however you can not place all LED fixtures in the same bracket. If you buy $30 LED fixtures from eBay then you are paying for what you get, low reliability, poor growth, disco effects etc. I'm sure cheap MH fixtures have reliability and growth issues too.
I don't see many complaints from people running mid range fixtures such as Hydra52s, Radions and Kessils. If there are complaints it's usually to do with growth and this is most likely because they don't have the patience or ability to set the lights up correctly. MH is plug and play, decent LEDs aren't, it takes a little patience to set them up correctly but once done they grow amazing reefs with all the benefits of MH and none of the drawbacks.
 
How long should a reefer give before deciding if leds will work?

Would you be willing to wait 1 to 2 years before seeing results equivalent to MH regarding growth and color?
 
If you have LEDs set up correctly you shouldn't be waiting anywhere near a year. There are plenty of examples on here of fantistic growth and colour in half that time.
 
kenpau said:
If there are complaints it's usually to do with growth and this is most likely because they don't have the patience or ability to set the lights up correctly.
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Or the shear number that you need. This makes a HUGE $$$ difference on large tanks. You can go years and years and years with bulb replacements before making up the difference in cost. Most people go by the manufacturers recs for how many led units are needed for a given area and it's usually grossly underestimated.
 
LED has replaced the secondary lights for me - Actinics, HO, VHO, CFL, etc...
400W x 3 MH is my primary, but another 700W LEDs add pop, color, and allow me to create gentle mornings and evenings that MHs won't easily support.
 
kenpau said:
This may be the case for some LED units, however you can not place all LED fixtures in the same bracket. If you buy $30 LED fixtures from eBay then you are paying for what you get, low reliability, poor growth, disco effects etc. I'm sure cheap MH fixtures have reliability and growth issues too.
I don't see many complaints from people running mid range fixtures such as Hydra52s, Radions and Kessils. If there are complaints it's usually to do with growth and this is most likely because they don't have the patience or ability to set the lights up correctly. MH is plug and play, decent LEDs aren't, it takes a little patience to set them up correctly but once done they grow amazing reefs with all the benefits of MH and none of the drawbacks.
Click to expand...

I didn't want to name names but several of those companies you mentioned were the same ones people tell us they switched back from.
 
d2mini said:
Or the shear number that you need. This makes a HUGE $$$ difference on large tanks.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, I don't think it is any secret that there is a considerable outlay to buy enough fixtures to do the job that MH does, especially on large tanks. Absolutely no argument there. But for people to make statements that LEDs don't grow coral etc is completely false.

Hamilton Tech said:
I didn't want to name names but several of those companies you mentioned were the same ones people tell us they switched back from.
Click to expand...

I've heard these comments myself. But answer me this.....there is an absolutely amazing reef tank on here somewhere (I'll try and find it) running AI Sols/Vegas, so not even the latest generation.....if ONE person, and only one person in the hobby has success with LEDs then they must work. The problem with AI/Ecotech lights (if you can call it a problem) is that they are so customisable, people set them to colour spectrums which 'look pretty' and then are completely underwhelmed by the growth, the reason being it is a colour spectrum not found in nature. You don't have that option with MH, you either buy a 10k, 14k, 20k bulb etc and it's set to go. The people that have success with LEDs are the ones that take the time to make adjustments to their lighting for the benefit of the corals, and more likely than not, these successful lighting programs are the ones that are closest to 10k, 14k, 20k spectrums.
 
I just went to led on a biocube 29. ..I love mh..but I want to see for my self what all the hype is over the led...mh is a great sorce of light.and I never had any problems with growing corals...I still dont know about these led....its only been a week and my corals have even opened up like they do with mh....
 
This is the tank I was talking about. Lit and grown with AI LED lighting.


tankwithgreeny.jpg~original


side.jpg~original


hulk.jpg~original
[/QUOTE]
 
kenpau said:
I completely agree, I don't think it is any secret that there is a considerable outlay to buy enough fixtures to do the job that MH does, especially on large tanks. Absolutely no argument there. But for people to make statements that LEDs don't grow coral etc is completely false.



I've heard these comments myself. But answer me this.....there is an absolutely amazing reef tank on here somewhere (I'll try and find it) running AI Sols/Vegas, so not even the latest generation.....if ONE person, and only one person in the hobby has success with LEDs then they must work. The problem with AI/Ecotech lights (if you can call it a problem) is that they are so customisable, people set them to colour spectrums which 'look pretty' and then are completely underwhelmed by the growth, the reason being it is a colour spectrum not found in nature. You don't have that option with MH, you either buy a 10k, 14k, 20k bulb etc and it's set to go. The people that have success with LEDs are the ones that take the time to make adjustments to their lighting for the benefit of the corals, and more likely than not, these successful lighting programs are the ones that are closest to 10k, 14k, 20k spectrums.
Click to expand...
LED's work, so do metal halides. The problem with LED'so is that there is a lot of junk out there, and that you actually have to dial things in. There are plenty of people I see who come in, buy a radion, then get all huffy and mad when they bleach everything because they ran it at 100% 8" over their tank. All it takes to be successful with LED's is to dial in the color to match the spectrums that are known to work, and to not overdo it. My radions replaced 400w metal halides, and even then only run at 60%. LED's can and will burn everything, they are much brighter than people give them credit for.

Metal Halide and LEDS both work perfectly for reef tanks, LED's just aren't as plug and play, I'd go so far as to say they are better off in the hands of more experienced refers who know their tanks well enough to be able to dial it in perfectly.
 
pmcarbrey said:
LED's work, so do metal halides. The problem with LED'so is that there is a lot of junk out there, and that you actually have to dial things in. There are plenty of people I see who come in, buy a radion, then get all huffy and mad when they bleach everything because they ran it at 100% 8" over their tank. All it takes to be successful with LED's is to dial in the color to match the spectrums that are known to work, and to not overdo it. My radions replaced 400w metal halides, and even then only run at 60%. LED's can and will burn everything, they are much brighter than people give them credit for.

Metal Halide and LEDS both work perfectly for reef tanks, LED's just aren't as plug and play, I'd go so far as to say they are better off in the hands of more experienced refers who know their tanks well enough to be able to dial it in perfectly.
Click to expand...

Never heard anything more true anywhere on this site! Worded perfectly!!
I gradually increased my AI Hydra52s up to 95% so didn't burn my Acropora but noticed it was starting to get pale. Turned them down to 65% and am getting awesome colours now. But as you say a lot of of people who change from MH to LED would just go straight in at 100%, get terrible results, sell up, go back to MH and then come on here bagging out LEDs saying they don't work when all along it was user error!
 
MH is dead to me now. I live in AZ and I'd have to use a chiller for sure if I ran MH. I loved my Coralife MH pendant in the mid 1990's though :)
 
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