Is metal halide dead?

[Perth_reefer]

negative if you spends thousands of dollars they will.

Depending on your tank size.....what is your argument here? That LEDs don't grow coral or that you need enough fixtures to do it?

I can see why people who ditch LEDs to go back to MH are so upset, they spent a lot of money and didn't get results, ultimately because 1. they didn't use enough fixtures or 2. they didn't have them set up correctly.
Then they come on here and see people saying how good their LEDs are and how they're having success with them...

 

[Perth_reefer]

how bout the fact there is not one radion fixture or any one single LED fixture that will compare to one single MH fixture out there at all period.... if there was this debate wouldn't exist at all. everyone would have LEDs. that's all there is to it.

Irrelevant post! EVERYBODY knows you need more LED fixtures than MH. If I'm going to run 2 250W MH lights I'll need at least 4 Radions.....thats fine, if I'm happy to spend the money then great. But to suggest that having 4 Radions over your tank won't grow coral is completely false.

 

[malira]

Not for everyone. Not for me. Led were barely growing sps. T5 did it for me. I couldn't handle the heat in my room of MH.

It seems to me that with leds everything has to be right. And a lot of reefers have found the sweet spot. But with MH it seems the grow no matter what and when everything is just right you can't compete with their growth rate.
Leds are here to stay and getting better but to the OP'S question no MH are not dead.

The fact that you have a hard time finding things for them means your demand is higher than your supply. Suppliers will compensate to take advantage of the demand. When they are more available more people will go to them.

 

[jminick2]

There are people growing coral under $200 reef breeders fixtures. Pretty much any light will grow corals now, t5, led, halide, they're all valid options, to say one doesn't grow coral is disproved by plenty of tanks on here

false

 

[jminick2]

Irrelevant post! EVERYBODY knows you need more LED fixtures than MH. If I'm going to run 2 250W MH lights I'll need at least 4 Radions.....thats fine, if I'm happy to spend the money then great. But to suggest that having 4 Radions over your tank won't grow coral is completely false.

irrelevant? do you even know what this topic is about? you just answered the question yourself.....is metal halide dead no ......when will it be dead???.......it will be dead when one radion or one kessil or one hydra can replace 400w metal halide OR even a 250watt. let me know when that groundbreaking advancement In LED is there.....until then we should stop saying leds are improving all the time. BECAUSE 90% that make this statement never back it up with ANY kind of advancement and No I don't care about energy efficiency.

 

[Steve Atkins]

All this argument over growing corals is irrelevant to the initial question.

As mentioned by others, metal halides will be around as long as commercial users have a need for them and no longer. Once they are replaced in the commercial (structure and stadium lighting) area that will be it for MH in the hobby as well. No factory is going to stay open to produce the piddling quantity required to light reef tanks.

Good thing or bad thing? Again irrelevant, we just don’t matter enough to keep a factory running.

 

[Perth_reefer]

irrelevant? do you even know what this topic is about? you just answered the question yourself.....is metal halide dead no ......when will it be dead???.......it will be dead when one radion or one kessil or one hydra can replace 400w metal halide OR even a 250watt. let me know when that groundbreaking advancement In LED is there.....until then we should stop saying leds are improving all the time. BECAUSE 90% that make this statement never back it up with ANY kind of advancement and No I don't care about energy efficiency.

I answered that question further back in this thread.....a couple of times! I'll be the first to say that MH works and isn't dying out.

Again this doesn't mean MH doesn't work, or it's not selling or anything like that, just that the emphasis from major lighting companies seems to be on producing, marketing and selling LED fixtures.

MH isn't dead....far from it, but it's not going to knock LEDs out of the prime spot either now, there is no where for MH to go, LED improvements are just going to keep coming.

My argument is against thrown out statements like:-

seems like they have got as good as they are going to get at growing corals.

and

at this point leds are at a stand still in growing my corals

Without even a suggestion that, 'hold on....it might be user error', instead it's 'It must be that LEDs don't grow coral.....it can't be me'!

Price isn't just about output. A single MH v a single LED fixture isn't like for like, you're paying more for LED but you're getting a unit that is generally better looking, runs cooler and has far more features. With MH you're getting a unit that in some cases looks pretty good, in most though they're big, bulky with a huge ballast, they kick out a lot of heat and your customisation options are ON...OFF...ON...OFF.
Now it's horses for courses, some people want customisation, some don't, some don't want to spend money on a chiller, some don't mind, some people want a sleek looking fixture, some don't mind having Frankensteins monster hanging over their tank. You need more fixtures if you're buying LED...period. LEDs cost more to buy....period. LEDs grow coral and grow it well...period.
You will find that every LED user will readily admit MH grows coral but there seems to be an unwillingness of some MH users to accept LED as a viable option for coral growth.

 

[maxwell]

Hi.
A view from a UK newbie who has just tried halides, i have just done an upgrade to a 1000L sps tank using 20k radiums and t5 but dut to heat issues not having a chiller i removed them and fitted leds from my old systems an orphek 2.1,radion pro and a kessila360we and still not enough light and looking for a par 38 bulb as a suppliment .I intend to go back to the halides(best light i have seen) or choose an ati hybrid stil not sure which way to go.

Bill

 

[JamesHolt]

Yes they are dead...
Please send me the pendants...:dance:..I can find a use for them..:clown:

 

[Perth_reefer]

Hi.
A view from a UK newbie who has just tried halides, i have just done an upgrade to a 1000L sps tank using 20k radiums and t5 but dut to heat issues not having a chiller i removed them and fitted leds from my old systems an orphek 2.1,radion pro and a kessila360we and still not enough light and looking for a par 38 bulb as a suppliment .I intend to go back to the halides(best light i have seen) or choose an ati hybrid stil not sure which way to go.

Bill

The hybrids look like a pretty exciting option IMO. All the benefits of LED and T5 in one. No issues with shading, total coverage of the tank, the customisation that LEDs give, shimmer, enhanced growth of T5, colour of LEDs. The only downside is that they aren't cheap!

 

[maxwell]

ken
Tank with leds showing shading



bill

 

[jminick2]

All this argument over growing corals is irrelevant to the initial question.

As mentioned by others, metal halides will be around as long as commercial users have a need for them and no longer. Once they are replaced in the commercial (structure and stadium lighting) area that will be it for MH in the hobby as well. No factory is going to stay open to produce the piddling quantity required to light reef tanks.

Good thing or bad thing? Again irrelevant, we just don't matter enough to keep a factory running.

I'm pretty sure they just started making 14k phoenix bulbs for "us" and growing corals is directly related to the topic......

 

[Perth_reefer]

ken
Tank with leds showing shading

View attachment 323072

bill

Definitely a disadvantage of LEDs, but this is the reason more fixtures are required than MH. Obviously this isn't a problem with the new LED/T5 hybrids.

 

[alton]

No problem with shading from my BML Leds, but I am still not ready to let them go it alone. I will keep running the 3 x 250w MH with them on my 300DD, 3 hours a day in the summer and 8 in the winter, with Leds running 10 and 12 hours a day.

 

[shred5]

I was leaning more towards manufacturers protecting their business by possibly implying increased MH sales and decreasing LED sales. Retailers will sell whatever is in demand at the time, there is still a demand for MH of course so they will still stock it.

Do you even read people's post?
Retailers are also saying metal halide sales are rising! Period.
Your argument doesn't hold water because they have nothing to gain, they make money no matter what they sell.

 

[Mock]

Too many people going from LEDs back to MH...... There is a huge thread on here about it... I suggest you go read that one.

 

[Perth_reefer]

Too many people going from LEDs back to MH...... There is a huge thread on here about it... I suggest you go read that one.

What are the reasons being quoted for leaving LED?? You see I still can't get an answer to my question.....if only ONE person on the planet can get LEDs to grow an amazing reef then LEDs must work.....so why is it some people can't get LEDs growing corals and are going back to MH? Because LEDs work...thats been proven, the only other option is user error.

Do you even read people's post?
Retailers are also saying metal halide sales are rising! Period.
Your argument doesn't hold water because they have nothing to gain, they make money no matter what they sell.

Of course I read them....has every retailer in every continent been saying this or has it come from a handful of retailers in a certain region?? Because what I've seen in my LFS is mainly LED with a few T5 fixtures, but then I live in a hot climate.

Oh and did you even read my post??

I was leaning more towards manufacturers protecting their business by possibly implying increased MH sales and decreasing LED sales. Retailers will sell whatever is in demand at the time, there is still a demand for MH of course so they will still stock it.

 

[Wazzel]

I'm pretty sure they just started making 14k phoenix bulbs for "us" and growing corals is directly related to the topic......

In a plant that is making other lamps for other uses. There may be enough demand to keep a line running, or run a batch here and there, but not enough to keep an entire plant going.

 

[jminick2]

In a plant that is making other lamps for other uses. There may be enough demand to keep a line running, or run a batch here and there, but not enough to keep an entire plant going.

I'd agree, but to put money into production of a discontinued item at all is saying something.

 

[Wazzel]

Too many people going from LEDs back to MH...... There is a huge thread on here about it... I suggest you go read that one.

There are also lots of people who went LED and stayed LED. There is lots of good information in that thread, and lots of crap.