Is metal halide dead?

Johnseye said:
I brought up the issue with the language. I think the OPs intent was to understand whether MH was a dieing tech, not currently dead which most of us know it is not. To clarify, what I mean by dieing is declining from what it once was. It may never actually die, as long as there's a demand which pays for the supply. It's just semantics.

Under gravel filters might be dead :clown:
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don't tell Paul b that.
 
I had 2 175watt 20k Plusrite's using a PFO ballast over a 40g breeder..With a T8 actinic..
FTS4_22_2015_zpsjquhtkcw.jpg


I would have loved to do the led fixtures but I didnt want to mess with setting them up..
For me the MH were alot easier to setup, just toss in the par meter and adjust the height till I have 100-120 par on the sand.. Another factor for me staying with the MH was cost, spend $500 on some Kessils or keep using the $20 worth of MH that I already have, they are working fine, the corals love them, I like the look of the bulbs, and the wife pays the power bill so... No brainer for me..
When I do another tank I may try an led fixture, but if I can get a used MH from my LFS cheap I will go with that..
I have a LFS that is close to me that has a flat display tank, he has two differt Kessils, a 250 MH, a 400 MH, and a LED panel (brand starts with O, cant remember the name), all mounted at roughly the same distance.. We checked them with my par meter and the 250 MH and the Kessils were close to each other, the 400MH was around 280, and the LED panel would do around 350 (on the sand for all measurements)..
To me (colorblind as hell), the Kessils looked dimmer than any of them, the LED panel was the brightest but it just didnt look right, to many shimmers, the 400 MH was the most attractive looking to me..But I am colorblind so what looks good to me,, may look really goofy to everyone else..
 
Steve Atkins said:
All this argument over growing corals is irrelevant to the initial question.

As mentioned by others, metal halides will be around as long as commercial users have a need for them and no longer. Once they are replaced in the commercial (structure and stadium lighting) area that will be it for MH in the hobby as well. No factory is going to stay open to produce the piddling quantity required to light reef tanks.

Good thing or bad thing? Again irrelevant, we just don’t matter enough to keep a factory running.
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This is totally true.. The company I work for determines which technology lives and dies since we spec what type of fixtures go on too what kind of job. We do lighting for pretty much anything, Warehouse, factories, parking lots, food processes and food storage, office, medical and retail, etc. We do it all around the country and some out of the country.

About a year ago I had said led really was not increasing much. It was used in things like exit lights and task lighting for like jewelry case displays etc...
Anyhow right after that we saw a huge surge in leds requests on jobs as alternates. Not all the jobs went led and the main reason is initial cost of a led fixture can be higher and other reasons. But the increase was because the salesman hit up the owners of these building and not just the engineers.

Now we have seen a drop in led sales again and the main reason is people hate led lighting for general purpose lighting. It is too directional and harsh and make offices look like caves..

Where we are seeing growth of leds is in freezer applications and cold weather parking lots. Mainly because they dont require any warm up like other forms of lighting like metal halide or HPS.

Another area I has grown is in life emergency again because of instant on.

Retail leans more led because most of it is task lighting or display lighting.

Lately we have been doing allot of cannibals grow facilities and I thought they would go led but they hate it too and actually prefer HPS...



Led has made some inroads on fluorescent too but not much.. Mainly the applications where we might use t-5..

Led is not going to hurt halides much.. Plasma may put MH and HPS out.. Leds are not going too period. Leds will survive plasma but in certain applications just like now.

My point really is leds are not really rising very fast and seems to come in waves and then slows down again... Leds will not kill halides but plasma might.
 
shred5 said:
This is totally true.. The company I work for determines which technology lives and dies since we spec what type of fixtures go on too what kind of job. We do lighting for pretty much anything, Warehouse, factories, parking lots, food processes and food storage, office, medical and retail, etc. We do it all around the country and some out of the country.

About a year ago I had said led really was not increasing much. It was used in things like exit lights and task lighting for like jewelry case displays etc...
Anyhow right after that we saw a huge surge in leds requests on jobs as alternates. Not all the jobs went led and the main reason is initial cost of a led fixture can be higher and other reasons. But the increase was because the salesman hit up the owners of these building and not just the engineers.

Now we have seen a drop in led sales again and the main reason is people hate led lighting for general purpose lighting. It is too directional and harsh and make offices look like caves..

Where we are seeing growth of leds is in freezer applications and cold weather parking lots. Mainly because they dont require any warm up like other forms of lighting like metal halide or HPS.

Another area I has grown is in life emergency again because of instant on.

Retail leans more led because most of it is task lighting or display lighting.

Lately we have been doing allot of cannibals grow facilities and I thought they would go led but they hate it too and actually prefer HPS...



Led has made some inroads on fluorescent too but not much.. Mainly the applications where we might use t-5..

Led is not going to hurt halides much.. Plasma may put MH and HPS out.. Leds are not going too period. Leds will survive plasma but in certain applications just like now.

My point really is leds are not really rising very fast and seems to come in waves and then slows down again... Leds will not kill halides but plasma might.
Click to expand...
interesting, good post.
 
shred5 said:
This is totally true.. The company I work for determines which technology lives and dies since we spec what type of fixtures go on too what kind of job. We do lighting for pretty much anything, Warehouse, factories, parking lots, food processes and food storage, office, medical and retail, etc. We do it all around the country and some out of the country.

About a year ago I had said led really was not increasing much. It was used in things like exit lights and task lighting for like jewelry case displays etc...
Anyhow right after that we saw a huge surge in leds requests on jobs as alternates. Not all the jobs went led and the main reason is initial cost of a led fixture can be higher and other reasons. But the increase was because the salesman hit up the owners of these building and not just the engineers.

Now we have seen a drop in led sales again and the main reason is people hate led lighting for general purpose lighting. It is too directional and harsh and make offices look like caves..

Where we are seeing growth of leds is in freezer applications and cold weather parking lots. Mainly because they dont require any warm up like other forms of lighting like metal halide or HPS.

Another area I has grown is in life emergency again because of instant on.

Retail leans more led because most of it is task lighting or display lighting.

Lately we have been doing allot of cannibals grow facilities and I thought they would go led but they hate it too and actually prefer HPS...



Led has made some inroads on fluorescent too but not much.. Mainly the applications where we might use t-5..

Led is not going to hurt halides much.. Plasma may put MH and HPS out.. Leds are not going too period. Leds will survive plasma but in certain applications just like now.

My point really is leds are not really rising very fast and seems to come in waves and then slows down again... Leds will not kill halides but plasma might.
Click to expand...
Will plasma have the same effect on corals that MH do? Is the look similar? What about heat issues and cost?
 
malira said:
Will plasma have the same effect on corals that MH do? Is the look similar? What about heat issues and cost?
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Every plasma (LEP) that I have seen were warm white with a green tint when run at full blast. You would definitely need to supplement them as an Iwasaki 6.5K is far more pleasing to the eye. This seems to be why many companies stopped looking to it in our industry.
 
d2mini said:
Ugh... you texans and your bluebell! I can't even taste the chocolate in the chocolate flavor. lol
Ben and Fairy's for me all day long! [emoji106]
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I'm talking Straight From the Hand of God Vanilla and Pecan Pie or whatever pie strikes your fancy.


PS. I don't care for their chocolate much either.
 
malira said:
Will plasma have the same effect on corals that MH do? Is the look similar? What about heat issues and cost?
Click to expand...

I have no idea on that until it is here.. Plasma is still ways out and will be adapted to fit the aquarium industry. Most likely will come from the Hydroponics industry first and from Europe for the aquarium industry anyway. Klaus might know more about that and I think he linked to a full spectrum fixture that is already being used in Hydroponics. I know there are some here in the Usa for Hydroponics industry but again full spectrum so they will be green/yellow.

It will most likely be expensive at first. We keep hearing it is right around the corner but then nothing.. I think there was such a investment made in leds that the fixture manufacturers we deal with are dragging their feet.
Lighting technology moves at a snails pace sometimes..

I will ask some of the engineers here if they have heard or seen anything yet. I dont do very much lighting anymore but I do see what goes out on most jobs. Also working in this industry for 30 years so I have friends that are lighting salesman..
 
kenpau said:
They do things a little differently in LA!!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliawang/2014/09/10/bright-lights-big-profits/
Click to expand...




That is high pressure sodium not halide. You can tell its because HPS has a horrible yellow glow to it. The only reason they were using HPS is energy codes in California. Also led is being used outside lighting like parking lots and street lighting especially in northern climates that our cold which I mentioned. Also that article is only about street lighting not facility lighting. Leds is actually to me better for street lighting in my opinion because they are great horizontal lighting but are terrible for vertical lighting.

In California though they have extremely tight energy codes and because of them California will have more leds used than other states.. Florida is another state where leds are used more to meet energy code. Leds are not being used there because people want them but because of energy codes are forcing them down peoples throats.. Also who would not want to get rid of those yellow hps lamps to begin with they are Fugly and were also forced on them because of energy codes.

Honestly I think the best lights for the hobby are hybrid fixtures but the prices are insane on them right now mainly because they are only coming from the high-end fixture companies like Giesemann and ATI..

Edit: I removed a statement because I dont want to get in which is better for aquarium debate.. All three major technologies can grow corals and can meet the basic requirements of chlorophyll and all 3 have thier advantages and disadvantages.
 
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shred5 said:
That is high pressure sodium not halide. HPS has a horrible yellow glow to it. The only reason they were using HPS is energy codes in California. Also led is being used outside lighting like parking lots and street lighting especially in northern climates that our cold which I mentioned. Also that article is only about street lighting not facility lighting.

In California though they have extremely tight energy codes and because of them California will have more leds used than other states.. Florida is another state where leds are used more to meet energy code. Leds are not being used there because people want them but because of energy codes are forcing them down peoples throats.. Also who would not want to get rid of those yellow hps lamps to begin with they are Fugly and were also forced on them because of energy codes.

I am not against leds I am just stating fact from work here. I use t-5 to light my tank. I have tried leds and they grew corals fine but browned out some my sps so Switched them out.

Honestly I think the best lights for the hobby are hybrid fixtures but the prices are insane on them right now mainly because they are only coming from the high-end fixture companies like Giesemann and ATI..
Click to expand...

You are correct that the article is about street lighting, however it does show that major cities are taking steps to reduce the wasted energy lost in more traditional lighting.
It's not just California making the change either...

'Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Shanghai, Copenhagen and scores of other cities around the world are deploying LEDs in an attempt to solve most, if not all, of the problems created by inefficient traditional lamps.'
 
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