Is metal halide dead?

[pmcarbrey]

Most lfs don't grow corals. The mainly keep and display them.

Unless you are in Houston. We have a lfs, Ocean Life Aquariums, and their main display uses MH with led accents. It is beautiful.

My next build will be with MH.

When Steve Tyree came to Reefcurrents here in Houston his set up was with a MH. Totally different. I think MH provide more of a traditionalist culture to them. Pure aesthetic beauty. Natural as opposed to contrived.

We grow about 50% of our sps we sell ourselves at the shop here, all the growth tanks used to be under halides, but that made the back room feel like a sauna, after we got the radions dialed in there were no real differences in growth from the MH, it was just better for us temperature wise.

As far as metal halide being natural... I'm not sure where that came from. They're both extremely artificial, metal halide is just more traditional. Most shops you go to, I'd be willing to bet over 90%, will use halide for anything they actually grow themselves. Why? Because it's what they've been using for years, and the cost to upgrade is isn't worth it for most of them. A lot of stores have metal halide ballasts and reflectors coming out the you know what, it's cheaper and easier to just pull out a metal halide for any tank that isn't a display.

 

[karimwassef]

I think he means that MH looks more like sunlight.
LEDs have a narrow frequency band. To get closer to full spectrum, you need to run different LEDs. The 'disco' effect, even with better lenses, can look artificial. The corals don't care, but it doesn't recreate what you'd see diving.

 

[Perth_reefer]

How is it protecting a retailers business like Marine Depot?

I was leaning more towards manufacturers protecting their business by possibly implying increased MH sales and decreasing LED sales. Retailers will sell whatever is in demand at the time, there is still a demand for MH of course so they will still stock it.

 

[malira]

I think he means that MH looks more like sunlight.
LEDs have a narrow frequency band. To get closer to full spectrum, you need to run different LEDs. The 'disco' effect, even with better lenses, can look artificial. The corals don't care, but it doesn't recreate what you'd see diving.

You said it better than I did.

 

[Perth_reefer]

I think he means that MH looks more like sunlight.
LEDs have a narrow frequency band. To get closer to full spectrum, you need to run different LEDs. The 'disco' effect, even with better lenses, can look artificial. The corals don't care, but it doesn't recreate what you'd see diving.

The disco effect was a major problem for the early LED units, and still is for some home made and cheaper fixtures. Obviously it has been seen as something of an issue to overcome for manufacturers and I think now the use of clusters seems to mitigate the disco effect somewhat. It's a fine line between having nice shimmer and Saturday Night Fever with LEDs but if set up correctly with high end units the disco effect should be very minimal, if seen at all.

 

[tkeracer619]

 

[kevin_e]

I overheard a conversation at my LFS between the head conch (been reefing since 1993) and a guy looking to set a tank up. He told him to forget about MH as they are getting harder to get hold of because they are being phased out by the manufacturers, and that LED is the way forward as the 'good' ones offer similar intensity but are much more power efficient. This guy is coral mad, doesnt really care much about fish so I believe he knows what he's talking about. I personally dont see the point in MH anymore, if I were doing a serious SPS tank I would use LED and supplement with a couple of T5's. But from what ive seen SPS can thrive under nothing but LED's, all SPS at my LFS are grown under LED's and their display tanks also use LED's (been set up a couple of years now, i'll take a pic when im next in).

That's false. Multiple retailers have stated that metal halide is getting stronger and stronger once again. Some cmpanies that stopped production last year, are back producing again (i.e. Phoenix just hit the market again a couple weeks ago). Furthermore, all the LFS in my area have stated that if not for the heat issues, they would all run metal halides, it just isn't practical for them when they are in the market for profit.

You may not see the point iiin metal halide, but that doesn't mean they don;t have a place. There's a reason a lot of SPS keepers are still using metal halide; in fact some of the SPS keepers in my area regret ever trying LED.

 

[kevin_e]

This quote from another forum about what has been seen at the major trade shows: This is not to bash MH, as a matter of fact...if I could use MH, I would. But to answer the question posted by the OP. Is it dead? no, but the future looks to be heading in another direction, in a hurry.

Quote: "at the past few shows there was not a single metal halide light on display nor any chillers".

In a hurry? That's not true. MH sales have increased while LEDs has decreased.

 

[karimwassef]

I think the question for some reefers is whether or not it looks like a real underwater scene. MH provides a closer match to real sunlight ... Unfortunately, that includes heat and UV, all along an analog distribution.

There are some things that MH does better. And there are other things that LEDs do better.

 

[pmcarbrey]

In a hurry? That's not true. MH sales have increased while LEDs has decreased.

Sorry, but I have to call that one. LED's are growing faster than any other type of lighting, and sales are by no means going down. LED lights are available for everything. Fish only tanks, planted freshwater tanks, reef tanks, everything. They have a larger market appeal than anything other than T5's. Metal Halides are not on as steep of a decline as some in this thread make it sound, but this is not the beginning of some metal halide revival, they are just as viable today as they were 6 months ago, and just as viable as they will be 6 months from now when this thread is posted again.

But LED'S are always improving, it will reach a point where they are cheap enough to be an entry level reef lighting with an initial entry price similar to that of halides, that's when the real decline of halides will start. When every new reefer can buy high quality, tried and true fixtures for the same price as halides there will be no reason to really go halide other than tradition.

 

[kevin_e]

Sorry, but I have to call that one. LED's are growing faster than any other type of lighting, and sales are by no means going down. LED lights are available for everything. Fish only tanks, planted freshwater tanks, reef tanks, everything. They have a larger market appeal than anything other than T5's. Metal Halides are not on as steep of a decline as some in this thread make it sound, but this is not the beginning of some metal halide revival, they are just as viable today as they were 6 months ago, and just as viable as they will be 6 months from now when this thread is posted again.

But LED'S are always improving, it will reach a point where they are cheap enough to be an entry level reef lighting with an initial entry price similar to that of halides, that's when the real decline of halides will start. When every new reefer can buy high quality, tried and true fixtures for the same price as halides there will be no reason to really go halide other than tradition.

I didn't say LED lights weren't growing, I said there growth rate is declining. I also didn't state that metal halide is revolutionizing, I said that after sales decreased drastically, it is back on the rise.

I'm not sure why hyperbole is so abundant in this thread.

 

[jminick2]

Sorry, but I have to call that one. LED's are growing faster than any other type of lighting, and sales are by no means going down. LED lights are available for everything. Fish only tanks, planted freshwater tanks, reef tanks, everything. They have a larger market appeal than anything other than T5's. Metal Halides are not on as steep of a decline as some in this thread make it sound, but this is not the beginning of some metal halide revival, they are just as viable today as they were 6 months ago, and just as viable as they will be 6 months from now when this thread is posted again.

But LED'S are always improving, it will reach a point where they are cheap enough to be an entry level reef lighting with an initial entry price similar to that of halides, that's when the real decline of halides will start. When every new reefer can buy high quality, tried and true fixtures for the same price as halides there will be no reason to really go halide other than tradition.

what was the latest improvement in aquarium LED ? the thunderstorms effect? no offense to you but ppl say this all the time but no one ever has any specifics to the so called "improvements" seems like they have got as good as they are going to get at growing corals. which by the way is not what the big LED companies are interested in.

 

[pmcarbrey]

I didn't say LED lights weren't growing, I said there growth rate is declining.

And once again, I am saying that is wrong. LED'S are now coming on prepackaged freshwater kits, nanos, being sold at every fish shop I've been to, and still growing and improving. sure the sales of radions aren't going to make the massive percentage jump like they did when the pros came out, but that is a product of volume not a downturn. LED'S are growing just as fast as ever. Halides are great for reef tanks, leds are good for everything. They are a jack of all trades, and for that reason I see them dominating the market when it comes to overall share. There will always be those that prefer halides or t5, but leds will eventually be the entry level fixture

Edit: LED technology is advancing all the time, two years ago full spectrum LED fixtures were top of the line, and now even reef breeders and cheap Chinese LED's are available in full spectrum. On top of that you've got wide angle lenses, cheap programmable fixtures, remote control fixtures for less than $200, and a huge variety and DIY plans and setups available now. Things are moving at a great pace for LED's and reef lighting in general. The only real place to innovate right now when it comes to reef lighting is LED's, and when there is a new fixture available every two years, there are plenty of people who will she'll out enough cash to ensure that innovation continues.

And for the record, I have nothing against halides, if it weren't for the fact that it makes my fish room feel like a sauna in the summer I'd still be running them on everything, I like them. But LED's are a great addition to the reefing hobby, and I really don't see why people don't see that and value it. More options are good. LED fixtures will hopefully drive the price of T5'a and high end MH fixtures down as they become cheaper and cheaper, and even if they don't, they give reefers another option. There is no "best lighting" everyone's tank has different needs. Obviously there is differences in quality between different fixtures, but saying halides/t5/VHO/LED's are conclusively the best is just silly. They all work. So let's not argue about that. We all will have what we like best and what works for us, just like every other facet of this hobby.

 

[Perth_reefer]

what was the latest improvement in aquarium LED ? the thunderstorms effect?

We're not talking features with LED improvements but actual improvements in diode technology. I was reading something about a company in Scotland who have found a way to massively decrease the amount of energy lost from a LED, which apparently is through the casing. The problem being that making the casing thinner is time consuming and expensive, however they have found a way to mass produce this new type of casing, meaning that less energy is required to produce the same light.
LED's are improving all the time, again we're not talking about features of aquarium lighting but actual diode optical angles and efficiency.
The whole world is looking at ways of introducing advanced LEDs into every application, the automotive industry, home electronics, aviation, street lighting etc.
The improvements in these areas will then spill over into hobbies such as aquatic lighting.
MH isn't dead....far from it, but it's not going to knock LEDs out of the prime spot either now, there is no where for MH to go, LED improvements are just going to keep coming.

Don't agree with what I say? http://www.businessspectator.com.au...d-bulbs-keep-improving-efficiency-and-quality

 

[jminick2]

We're not talking features with LED improvements but actual improvements in diode technology. I was reading something about a company in Scotland who have found a way to massively decrease the amount of energy lost from a LED, which apparently is through the casing. The problem being that making the casing thinner is time consuming and expensive, however they have found a way to mass produce this new type of casing, meaning that less energy is required to produce the same light.
LED's are improving all the time, again we're not talking about features of aquarium lighting but actual diode optical angles and efficiency.
The whole world is looking at ways of introducing advanced LEDs into every application, the automotive industry, home electronics, aviation, street lighting etc.
The improvements in these areas will then spill over into hobbies such as aquatic lighting.
MH isn't dead....far from it, but it's not going to knock LEDs out of the prime spot either now, there is no where for MH to go, LED improvements are just going to keep coming.

Don't agree with what I say? http://www.businessspectator.com.au...d-bulbs-keep-improving-efficiency-and-quality

yea yea you told me...no offense man but I'll believe when I see it. at this point leds are at a stand still in growing my corals come talk to me when they get better at that.

 

[Perth_reefer]

what was the latest improvement in aquarium LED ? the thunderstorms effect? no offense to you but ppl say this all the time but no one ever has any specifics to the so called "improvements" seems like they have got as good as they are going to get at growing corals. which by the way is not what the big LED companies are interested in.

.....Is the most speculative post in the thread!! Where are your specifics that LEDs have got as good as they're going to get at growing coral??

 

[Perth_reefer]

yea yea you told me...no offense man but I'll believe when I see it. at this point leds are at a stand still in growing my corals come talk to me when they get better at that.

If you set them up correctly they'll grow coral just fine! There is plenty of evidence of this!

 

[jminick2]

If you set them up correctly they'll grow coral just fine!

negative if you spends thousands of dollars they will.

 

[jminick2]

.....Is the most speculative post in the thread!! Where are your specifics that LEDs have got as good as they're going to get at growing coral??

how bout the fact there is not one radion fixture or any one single LED fixture that will compare to one single MH fixture out there at all period.... if there was this debate wouldn't exist at all. everyone would have LEDs. that's all there is to it.

 

[pmcarbrey]

negative if you spends thousands of dollars they will.

There are people growing coral under $200 reef breeders fixtures. Pretty much any light will grow corals now, t5, led, halide, they're all valid options, to say one doesn't grow coral is disproved by plenty of tanks on here