is one week for shipment of LR too long?

[G_cuvier]

You were the one who attacked the rock cookers, not the other way around

Ahhhh... I see the problem.... You failed to comprehend what it was you read. If I might, for your edification, quote my entry into this conversation:-

Here we go again.... another mantra.....

Why is "everyone" recommending that he cook the rock??????

Now, where in that do I attack rock cookers? I was complaining about all the mantra repeaters who think that there is only one solution for any given problem.

I went on to say:-

To the Mantra Repeaters:

It's all very well to have a mantra.... Don't shoot yourself in the head with your own gun is a good one.... But there are two things you need to know about mantras:-

1. They usually have a religious "quality" which means they are repeated whenever there is ignorance or doubt. This does not make them right in every situation. They may be right in some cases but those circumstances are usually very limited. DO NOT repeat them unless you are _sure_ they are benficial.

2. Not all mantras are true..... Check them and understand the basic principles behind them. If they do not "pan out" or they don't have the science behind them that they claim to have then refer to point 1.

You will note, if you read that carefully and not just skim it, that I do not, _anywhere_ there mention cooking rock.

So it is your failure to comprehend my intent on entering this discussion that has led you to this frenzy of defense for your position. This frenzy has led you to "shout" an entire post at me by bolding the entire thing, (you're a web designer - don't tell me it was a mistake that you were unable to edit out). It's OK Kong, you can stop repeating the mantra now - you believe it and in all it's mystical powers.

As a final statement with you on this subject in this topic and for the benefit of the OP I will state that while cooking rock is perfectly viable in certain situations it is extreme in his. He doesn't want his rock sat in a bucket in the basement for three months or more and he doesn't _need_ to have it there.

TTFN Kong

 

[mille239]

One quick point, I know you mentioned you have sand in the tank already.. I higly recommend you cure the rock without the sand in there, or else in a separate container.. tons of crud will come off, and you don't need this stuff fouling up the sand before you even get started.. just my two cents .. good luck and happy reefing!

 

[G_cuvier]

Mille: That was the point of my suggestion that he utilize some form of rack to keep his rock off the sand and to maximize the current under the rock without disturbing the sand too much... It's hard to cover every single benefit a single act might provide....

 

[kbmdale]

hahaha, I thought Iwas the only one that could get the MRS. mad... :lol:

 

[Mrs.kbmdale]

Now I'm mad at YOU for stirrin the pot!!

 

[mille239]

and if you're gonna cook it... I always like to throw in a sprig of parsely, and just a pinch of basil.

 

[Mrs.kbmdale]

:lol:

 

[kbmdale]

Deep fried rock with lots of ketchup.....MMMMM.... taste like chicken.

 

[aubee91]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6475055#post6475055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mille239
One quick point, I know you mentioned you have sand in the tank already.. I higly recommend you cure the rock without the sand in there, or else in a separate container.. tons of crud will come off, and you don't need this stuff fouling up the sand before you even get started.. just my two cents .. good luck and happy reefing!

And as far as cooking it, he could just cure it in low light in separate containers and see how much crud comes out. If it stops pretty quickly, then it obviously didn't need cooking. If the rocks puke crud for weeks on end, then they probably need more curing before going in the tank. One thing is for sure, the longer it is out of water the more dead stuff will be on it and it's just as well not to put that stuff in the tank as it's going to feed something he doesn't want. JMHO...

 

[zukihara]

I think I can answer your question plainly.

Live Rock costs a good bit and 8 days is longer than optimum for what you purchased it for. I assume you want to get it into the tank, start cycling and see some interesting life eventually come out of the rock. If you wanted cheap half-dead rock you could have got it cheaper.

So you have choices.

Have another order reshipped at their cost, get a substantial discount and use what you got or just plain shut up and use what you got.

If it were me starting a new tank I would not settle for the delayed rock and I'd ask them to send a smaller order of good rock out free to help the half-dead stuff out or just get a refund. There is probably a middle ground out there for you guys to both be happy without making the seller lose a bunch of money due to the shipper and still put a smile on your face.

I don't think you would have ordered that rock if you knew 4 months of "cooking" was required. Whatever you do, don't get soured by waiting 4 more months. Get a refund, discount or whatever makes you happy and get the additional rock in when the ammonia hits 0.

While cooking rock may be the greatest thing since sliced bread the point is it's not what you planned on. The people who cook rock for 4 months either have an existing reef running or have insane patience. I don't have that kind of patience when staring at a dry aquarium.

 

[mille239]

excellent point aubee91!

 

[SeanT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6468106#post6468106 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
cooking rock....it can be months....

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6468152#post6468152 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sindjin
Cook the rock. Basically you're Curing it in total darkness for 3 or 4 months. this allows all algaes to die off and your live rock to expell all built up detritus from inside itself while cycling.

No, no, no...6 weeks tops if you are vigilant and follow the instructions.

 

[SeanT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
Here we go again.... another mantra.....

JUST what I was thinking 1/3rd of the way through your post.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
Why is "everyone" recommending that he cook the rock??????

Ummm, because it works, will clean the decay and remove most of the PO4 that spurs on algal growth.
That's why.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
Cooking rock is a process where one leaches the built up undesirable nutrients from LR that have built up during an extended period in a aquarium

...to rid all the die off of aqua-CLUTTERED rock.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
If cooking your LR was "normal" practice upon delivery why doesn't everyone do it _all_ the time.

Because not many know of it, but the numbers are growing.
Also, many do not have the resources or time do it.
Additionally, many think it uneeded...then BLAM.
Also, many people are "newbies" who set up their tanks looooong before they find RC.
This process, is the smartest bet there is.
If you don't "cook" your rock will you have algae problems?
Noone can say for sure.
If you do "cook" your rock will you have algae problems?
All things being equal your chances are MUCH, much lower.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
Since the vendor, presumably, isn't selling LR that has been sat in someone's aquarium for a year or more I fail to see where the massive build-up of undesirable nutrients came from in an eight day old box with no water to move said nutrients deep into the rock.

Once again, a huge die off occurs when the rock is out of water.
Why are you under the assumption that the only time this rock was out of water is only 8 days?
What about from the collector on the islands, then packaging it, then transporting it to the airport (or dock) then the time waiting for the flight, then the flight, then into LAX (most likely) then it sits more, then it is picked up, then shipped to vendors, then shipped to you (do you like my run on sentnece? ). Days, weeks, even months out of water.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
So, cooking this rock is going to do no good... period.... In fact it will do much more harm than good.

Actually, the EXACT opposite of this statement is true.
The absolutely BEST thing you can do is "cook" this rock.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
It's all very well to have a mantra.... Don't shoot yourself in the head with your own gun is a good one.... But there are two things you need to know about mantras:-

That you are the only one here with one?
And you like to speak it without the research to back it up?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
Look how many of you prior to this post recommended cooking the rock which will kill even more than the delayed delivery did.

Actually, the only thing that dies off is algae.
Pods, worms, snails, crabs, sponges and many corals survive this process.
But alas, the poor algae does not.
To heck with the algae...I have a CORAL reef tanks, NOT a PLANTED saltwater tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
If you haven't researched the science and nature behind your (offensive term removed and replaced with) "process" from _independent_ sources and understood it completely then quit spouting it.... because you simply don't know whether it is appropriate for the situation and what is bad about that is you are killing more than you save and you are giving bad advice to people who are trusting you...... Get it?

Oh I got it.
I have done the research, I have read the journals, and I understand them.
This process is based on fact...not hope.
So basically you are speaking purely on speculation with zero facts and zero experience to back it up.
Unless I am wrong and you do have facts, journals, studies, tests to back up your statments.
Do you?
I would be happy to post mine in the spirit of advancing the general knowledge of the reefkeeping community.

Got that?

 

[Reefy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6475311#post6475311 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aubee91
And as far as cooking it, he could just cure it in low light in separate containers and see how much crud comes out. If it stops pretty quickly, then it obviously didn't need cooking. If the rocks puke crud for weeks on end, then they probably need more curing before going in the tank. One thing is for sure, the longer it is out of water the more dead stuff will be on it and it's just as well not to put that stuff in the tank as it's going to feed something he doesn't want. JMHO...

I agree with this. I think that both Kong and G_cuvier have valid points for cycling his tank. Could you both please debate your points without taking it personally? There is good information to consider for BOTH sides!

My opinion:
Cooking may be warranted in this case due to the extreme die off that I believe the original poster is going to see. I have had late/delayed shipments of live rock before. Though, never longer than 5 days. At 5 days, the stench of the curing rock was UNBEARABLE! :eek2: I wouldn't take the chance of adding the die off to my tank's sand bed. I don't care how much flow you have in the display tank, with a sand bed in there, you won't get all the decaying matter out of it. (If you were BB, then I would cure in the tank). Anyway, I cured my new live rock in separate tubs for 8 weeks. Changing 100% of the water every three days for the first 2 weeks, then, weekly water changes for the other 6 weeks. I was amazed at the amount of crud left on the bottom of the curing tubs.

 

[mhurley]

G_cuvier,

Let's cover this in 2 pieces.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
To the Mods:

Yes, I can be a little abrasive. But if this site is about helping aquarists to better care for their livestock,

Yes, you can. And yes it is. So I don't see how you belittling other peoples ideas is helping anyone. I suggest you abide by the User Agreement and avoid personal attacks.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6469501#post6469501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier
The bad advice that is continually given here needs to be challenged since it harms our hobby..... I can understand people making mistakes but I cannot understand why you allow a whole threadful of people to give bad advice because it uses a cute and trendy term, (cooking), to remain on the board.

That's the amazing thing about "advice". It's an opinion. This is a discussion board. Not "G_cuvier's Method Board". We allow discussion and exchange of ideas. If you disagree....fine...then disagree. But to come in here and tell people that this idea is wrong, bad advice and trendy only shows how closed minded some people can be.
We'd all be running an undergravel filters with crushed coral and a bio-wheel if we didn't move with the times.

If you are suggesting that we start banning people because others don't agree with their ideas, you've got the wrong board. This place would get pretty lonely if that were to start happening.

I cannot say this enough around here lately.


This is a HOBBY. Relax and enjoy it!!!

 

[G_cuvier]

So basically you are speaking purely on speculation with zero facts and zero experience to back it up.

Horrible assumption.... I have cooked rock and I do understand why and how it works.... Funnily enough I understood the principles sufficiently to carry out almost the exact process you describe prior to even coming to RC and becoming aware of the term "cooking".

(offensive term removed and replaced with) "process"

This is a perfect example of the, er... less than adult... Yes, that's it.... way people seem to carry themselves here and I thought better of you Sean.

Please.... All you "rock cookers" read this very carefully. I am not attacking rock cooking. I do not care how passionately you care for your cooking. I attacked the herd of sheep that hear a given number of "rules" in this hobby and just repeat them ad infinitum. This thread was a perfect example of the mantra repeaters. In the first ten or so posts six or seven people stated "cook your rock". They didn't even have the good grace to point the OP to an explanation of it... They just repeated it sufficient times in the hope that he too will come under the mystic spell of, in this case, cooking rock. I have seen the same thing with the tang police and some other mantras in my short time here.

I have been in the hobby long enough to know that todays mantra is tomorrow's "lying by the roadside because something better has come along".... All the way from UGF's being the best thing since sliced bread, through reverse UGF's, the Plenum, Bio balls, the Berlin Method, no filtration yada yada yada..... It's a fact of this hobby and it will continue to be long after we have all expired. You need to get used to that fact.

Funnily enough it has _never_ been someone who has had fixed beliefs that has innovated... It has always been those who accept all the methods available, understood them for what they are, why they succeed and in what circumstances they are used that has improved this hobby.... Just like in real life......

[EDIT]

GHurley:

Yes, you can. And yes it is. So I don't see how you belittling other peoples ideas is helping anyone. I suggest you abide by the User Agreement and avoid personal attacks.

'S'cuse me???? I have been careful not to be "personal"... I may be abrasive in general but please point out where I directed anything at an individual that would be considered anything other than discussion.

Secondly, where have I "belittled" anyone's ideas? I have stated on numerous occasions that cooking is a viable process that has it's place. How do you relate that to me "belittling"?

I'm beginning to believe that I am the only one speaking the Queens English here rather than American English. Proof? Read on....

But to come in here and tell people that this idea is wrong, bad advice and trendy only shows how closed minded some people can be.

*COUGH* I have only said that the idea is inappropriate in the case of the original poster - time and time again I have repeated that and have been attacked by people who _think_ I have attacked them but have failed to read what I have written _or_ failed to comprehend it.....

SIGH

[/EDIT]

 

[SeanT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6475606#post6475606 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G_cuvier

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(offensive term removed and replaced with) "process"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a perfect example of the, er... less than adult... Yes, that's it.... way people seem to carry themselves here and I thought better of you Sean.

hmmm...

manÃ"šÃ‚·tra
Pronunciation: 'män-tr& also 'man- or 'm&n-
Function: noun
a mystical formula of invocation or incantation (as in Hinduism);

And you are saying that I was "less than adult".
You are comparing HARD SCIENCE to a "mystical formula."
I think we have nothing more to talk about. :wavehand:

 

[mille239]

ooooooo snap!

 

[G_cuvier]

You are comparing HARD SCIENCE to a "mystical formula."

I surrender.... You all know best.... I am an idiot noob that has no clue. Does anyone here read English? Sean.... All I said was it isn't necessary in the OP's case.... Sheesh!!!!!

Hopefully, through all the static created by the fanatics here, the OP got _something_ useful from it.....

 

[mille239]

stingers81... save yourself!!! Aabandon your thread while there is still time!! run!!!! it's too late for some of us....