is there an easy way to do water changes?

[FortuneFavours]

Thanks again for all the different info / opinions / ideas!

The more I read about it, the more dosing pumps make sense to me.

Myself and a bunch of others have been using a double headed peristaltic pump to remove and replace water at the same time and since it is 1 motor turning pump heads at the same time the speed and everything are very consistent.

Here is the thread....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2349824

I don't know if you are okay with purchasing a pump. If you are a stenner pump with dual head will be perfect. I have mine setup to run 15 min a day. I picked up one on ebay for $100.

How long have you been using this system and how has it been working for you guys?

With regards to the specific pumps, why did you go with the specialist pumps over a 'normal' dosing pump (e.g. Marine Color)? Is it just that the MC type models just aren't powerful enough? I'm happy to buy a Stenner pump, if I can get one in the UK!

 

[Sacohen]

I have not set mine up yet. I'm going to set it up on the 90 gallon upgrade I'm starting.
Others have been using the Stenners since about December if I remember correctly.
They are very pleased with it and have had no complaints.

 

[jonnyu]

Well I have been running for a few months. I went with stenner as they have no duty time. They can run 24 hours or can be cycled. As for a small dosing pump you would have to run a long time to change a few gallons. As for my pump is 100 gallon per day. So a few min a day is enough for me. I am still tweaking setup as I am using a apex with float switches. This way if drum does empty it does not pull your sump dry. You can program your using your ato float switch. If you low level ato is triggered then your AWC setup will turn off. This keeps you from running out of water in your sump. I a need to finish installing float switch in my 55 gallon drum to let me know drum is low or empty. As for stenner I think ebay is easiest way to find one. The other advantage is a small dosing pump will not pull water very far. I have a friend has his setup over 50 feet away and runs great. Mine is setup about 30 feet from tank. I don't think the standard dosing pumps will do that. If you need help finding one let me know.

 

[blackway1688]

Get two of them. Procedure is:

• Turn off the return pump
• Meter out N gallons of sump water to the drain
• Meter in the same N gallons of NSW from the mixing tank to the sump
• Turn on the return pump

.[/QUOTE]

Why do you need to turn off the return pump when water changing? Is there any advantage or disadvantage? Thanks

 

[FortuneFavours]

Well I have been running for a few months. I went with stenner as they have no duty time. They can run 24 hours or can be cycled. As for a small dosing pump you would have to run a long time to change a few gallons. As for my pump is 100 gallon per day. So a few min a day is enough for me. I am still tweaking setup as I am using a apex with float switches. This way if drum does empty it does not pull your sump dry. You can program your using your ato float switch. If you low level ato is triggered then your AWC setup will turn off. This keeps you from running out of water in your sump. I a need to finish installing float switch in my 55 gallon drum to let me know drum is low or empty. As for stenner I think ebay is easiest way to find one. The other advantage is a small dosing pump will not pull water very far. I have a friend has his setup over 50 feet away and runs great. Mine is setup about 30 feet from tank. I don't think the standard dosing pumps will do that. If you need help finding one let me know.

I've been doing a bit more research on the pumps and I definitely see why using a 'normal' dosing pump for water changes on a large tank would be a terrible idea - it would take forever!

I've found a dual channel peristaltic pump that does about 70 gallons per day (on a single channel model). My thinking is that the dual channel would work well, as it's two tubes running on the same pump (I think), so you get exactly the same flow rate. The slight problem is that the tubes both run in the same direction, but that's not a big deal as I'd just need to cross one over for my setup so I can have the same amount of water in/out.

This particular model uses a stepper motor which, from what I've read, is supposed to be much better than the normal brushed motors because they are much more durable, accurate and adjustable. Apparently, they need little to no calibration over their lifetime (if the claims are to be believed!).

I'd need to change 12L of water per day for a 1% daily water change. With the dual channel model, that would take about 2.5hrs which I'd time to happen at night when nobody ia around to hear it (depending on how loud it actually is!).
Q: how loud are these things anyway? Are they reverberate-through-the-house-and-prevent-you-from-sleep loud?
If they are quite loud, I might go for a more powerful model so the pain is over more quickly!

I'm looking at about $260 + shipping (from China) for this model.

I will look up the Litermeter too as others have kindly suggested, I haven't checked that out yet and don't know how it compares.

 

[jonnyu]

Well mine is a little noisy but if you have it in a closet or something then it's not to bad. I think 70 gallon a day is great setup. It should be more than enough

 

[shermanator]

that would take about 2.5hrs which I'd time to happen at night when nobody ia around to hear it (depending on how loud it actually is!).

...

I'm looking at about $260 + shipping (from China) for this model.

I will look up the Litermeter too as others have kindly suggested, I haven't checked that out yet and don't know how it compares.

Make sure the pump is rated for continuous duty if you will be running it 2.5 hours at a time. Stenner pumps are, but those are about double the price of the pump you have in mind.

If you don't already have a controller the LM3 is an especially good choice. But it's cost is similar to a dual-head Stenner (about $450 when all said and done).

 

[fustilarian]

In the system I'm planning I will have:

A 30 gallon tank plumbed off the return with a siphon overflow to the sump, both with valves
A small, always on pump in the 30 with two valves on the output, one goes right back into the 30 for mixing and keeping water moving, one goes out the house for drainage.

Water change process:

close both valves on 30 gal tank to separate from system
open/close pump valves to drain some water, then open/close valves again to make it recirculate water again (mix)
fill with RO and salt, test with conductivity probe
wait a day or two
open valves on 30 to un-separate it

 

[FortuneFavours]

Make sure the pump is rated for continuous duty if you will be running it 2.5 hours at a time. Stenner pumps are, but those are about double the price of the pump you have in mind.

If you don't already have a controller the LM3 is an especially good choice. But it's cost is similar to a dual-head Stenner (about $450 when all said and done).

It is a continuous duty pump. Here's a pic they sent me this morning:



The double channel version uses 3mm (ID) tubing with an expected lifetime of 10,000hrs which provides a flow rate of 108.39ml/min (so I'd need to run it for just under 2hrs to change 12L of water).

I've purchased a number of good quality products directly from China and have yet to be disappointed - and I'm hoping for another good quality product here.

The 1% water change per day makes a lot of sense to me after having read about it and this product looks like it will do the job perfectly (I hope!). So all I'd need to do for water changes is:

1) make sure the reservoir for the new saltwater is topped up weekly
2) make sure the reservoir for the waste water is emptied weekly (or better yet, send waste water straight to a house drain)

The 1% water change over 2hrs or so means I won't even have to worry about heating the new water to the right temperature or turning any valves/pumps off.

What I like about the dual-channel setup over the double-pump setup is that the water in/out should be always be in sync and, if the pump fails, both in and out functions stop (preventing flooding / draining).

This makes a lot of sense to me in theory, let's just hope it works in practice!!! It's reassuring knowing that some of you are already running a similar setup successfully.

Will keep you all posted. :thumbsup:

 

[shermanator]

2) make sure the reservoir for the waste water is emptied weekly (or better yet, send waste water straight to a house drain)

Keep the waste water in a reservoir (that overflows into a drain). That way, you'll always have water for QT.

 

[FortuneFavours]

Keep the waste water in a reservoir (that overflows into a drain). That way, you'll always have water for QT.

The water in the waste reservoir will only ever be a week old at most, so what a brilliant idea - thank you!

 

[zachts]

Thanks again for all the different info / opinions / ideas!

The more I read about it, the more dosing pumps make sense to me.






How long have you been using this system and how has it been working for you guys?

With regards to the specific pumps, why did you go with the specialist pumps over a 'normal' dosing pump (e.g. Marine Color)? Is it just that the MC type models just aren't powerful enough? I'm happy to buy a Stenner pump, if I can get one in the UK!

Been running mine now full time for ~3months. and just over 90 gallons changed out of my 55gal. display without lifting a finger (other than to dump bags of salt into my mixing station)

Using an ebay speacial Pitmann-Ametek pump motor with a pair of Cole-Parmer Masterflex L/S pump heads and a spiffy DIY control system.

The comercial pumps are made to run continuously and just about forever, they are also able to run stonger tubing like norprene since a failure in this system would be very bad. So I chose to err on the side of overkill for piece of mind that I don't have to worry about a pump head failing or one motor failing (if a two motor system). If my single motor with two heads fails it's no big deal, just no water gets changed till I fix it.

 

[FortuneFavours]

Been running mine now full time for ~3months. and just over 90 gallons changed out of my 55gal. display without lifting a finger (other than to dump bags of salt into my mixing station)

Using an ebay speacial Pitmann-Ametek pump motor with a pair of Cole-Parmer Masterflex L/S pump heads and a spiffy DIY control system.

The comercial pumps are made to run continuously and just about forever, they are also able to run stonger tubing like norprene since a failure in this system would be very bad. So I chose to err on the side of overkill for piece of mind that I don't have to worry about a pump head failing or one motor failing (if a two motor system). If my single motor with two heads fails it's no big deal, just no water gets changed till I fix it.

Someone after my own heart - why work harder than you have to???

I had a look at the Cole-Parmer pump heads - pricey, but probably worth the investment in the long run. Might upgrade later if this purchase doesn't work out...


I don't know much about this stuff at all - what's the difference between norprene and silicone tubing? And how did you build your DIY controller?

Two channels on one pump is definitely the way to go, I think. Makes much more sense.

 

[zachts]

Someone after my own heart - why work harder than you have to???

I had a look at the Cole-Parmer pump heads - pricey, but probably worth the investment in the long run. Might upgrade later if this purchase doesn't work out...


I don't know much about this stuff at all - what's the difference between norprene and silicone tubing? And how did you build your DIY controller?

Two channels on one pump is definitely the way to go, I think. Makes much more sense.

Norprene is more durable, ~4000hrs(minimum) life span at 50 rpm v.s. silicone which varies from 100-300hrs at 50rpm depending on exact make up of the silicone.

There's a few pics and early schematic of my controller on the thread linked earlier somewhere in the middle by now I'd suspect. Pretty basic, just a timer and a bunch of relays and float switches, and a whole rat's nest of wire

The other thing I like about mine using a DC Gear motor, is, while it is rather loud at full speed a simple and cheap pwm motor controller can slow it down to a crawl and make it silent. I run it at about half speed so I can't hear it up stairs (it sits on a beam in my basement under the floor to keep it out of the way)

I found the pump and heads in a surplus auction. paid $40 shipped to my door for a motor capable of driving three heads, plus the heads. I actually use all three heads and swap water from my display into my frag tank and then into the drain, while adding new water to the display. I'ts been a heck of a time saver and my tank is doing better now with less work than when I paid close attention to it :lolspin:


:beer:

 

[AdamSabina]

There is an easy way this was mine. The wife didn't allow me to build the water change station next to the wall in my back yard so this was my idea.

http://youtu.be/IaeW4I4qi5Q

 

[uwish]

Your solution is almost the same as mine. I have no fish room either so long hoses to siphon out; and a pump to put back from a mixing tank. Not automatic but no buckets!

 

[AdamSabina]

Your solution is almost the same as mine. I have no fish room either so long hoses to siphon out; and a pump to put back from a mixing tank. Not automatic but no buckets!

I don't really care about automatic but BUCKETS ARE TERRIBLE!

 

[FortuneFavours]

So I finally got round to setting this up and am currently testing it out on my small 15g quarantine tank (apologies for the terrible picture!):



The 105L container nearest the front is for my 'fresh' saltwater.

The water butt at the back is where the waste water goes. This has a tap with a hose attached. I just roll the hose out the patio doors and turn the tap to empty it.

The container in the middle is for my auto-top off.

On full power (300rpm), it takes 3hrs to change the 12L (3.2 gallons) of water I need for a 1% daily water change on the main tank.

I've been changing 12L a day on the QT and it's been working really well. Despite the relatively large volume of water being changed in the QT, there is no discernible change in the water level (i.e. the same amount of water is being taken out/put in, as expected), so I won't have to worry about tripping the auto-top off when I switch this over to the main tank.

Also, the 'fresh' saltwater is kept at room temperature and adding it over a 3h period doesn't result in any large fluctuation in temperature either, even in the small QT.

The containers are large enough to hold a week's worth of water, so water changes will now consist of weekly topping up of the 'fresh' saltwater container (put in RO water, salt & powerhead) and emptying the waste container (roll hose outside patio doors and turn on the tap).

It is a little on the noisy side at full rpm, so it will be run on a timer at night.

Thanks to everyone for their input and ideas - manual water changes on this tank would have been an absolute nightmare!!! :thumbsup:

By the way, I came across this interesting thread on another site which follows one person's experiment on (manual) 1% water changes over the course of two years. The findings are interesting (even if the majority of discussions went way over my head). I'll let you enjoy - it's 40 pages... :wildone:

 

[Sacohen]

Good luck with it. Let us know how it goes, if there's any fluctuation in salinity or what.

 

[FortuneFavours]

Good luck with it. Let us know how it goes, if there's any fluctuation in salinity or what.

Will do.

I'm not anticipating any changes in salinity in the main tank; the salinity in the 'fresh' saltwater mix is the same as that in the tan and the water level in the small QT hasn't shifted at all (yet). A 12L daily water change is equivalent to a ~20% water change in the QT (so I would have expected and discrepancy to show up there). But I will keep everyone updated with progress.